A.G. Gancarski
Six candidates for the Republican nomination in Northeast Florida’s Congressional District 4 squared off Thursday at the Jacksonville Bar debate.
Hans Tanzler, John Rutherford, Lake Ray, Bill McClure, Deborah Katz Pueschel, and Stephen Kaufman were all on hand. Ed Malin was not.
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The opening statements set the tone.
Kaufman looks forward to “working with President Trump,” and is running because “we are at war” and “our politics are broken.”
McClure talked of the 2006 Border Security Act, and the need to “build a wall,” before crediting his work on the St. Johns County Commission for the recent economic success in St. Johns County.
Pueschel described herself as “from a very long, distinguished family” of patriots, who first came over in the 1600s. Her intro tended toward biography, though she did allude to “problems in Washington, D.C.”
Rep. Ray noted that “we have a president who parades around the world apologizing for what we’ve done,” saying that can stop when Congress takes control as a third branch of government to “restore America.”
Rutherford noted that he wanted to make “crystal clear” why he’s in the race.
“Four hours from where we sit, 49 … people were murdered,” Rutherford said, before pivoting to “five dead police officers in Dallas.”
“When a sitting president tells us that we have to let a transgender male go into the bathrooms with our daughters, that’s absurd.”
Rutherford went on to talk about the “culture of death,” before talking about how when he was sheriff, his department initiated deportation proceedings on illegal alien criminals.
Tanzler delivered a brief biography, before noting a “disgusting slip of America toward socialism and the entitlement state that we cannot afford … a fiscal crisis that needs correcting.”
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The first question had to do with the potential loss of two Northeast Florida members of Congress, and how military bases can be protected.
McClure got first crack. He’d like to be on the Appropriations or Armed Services committees.
McClure noted that in St. Johns County, he voted to expand economic incentives for Northrup-Grumman.
Pueschel added that “it’s not just the bases we need to be concerned about, it’s also the ports.”
Ray played the experience card, noting “none of the other candidates serving have experience in the legislative process.”
“We’re going to have to have somebody who knows the process, knows how to work the bills, knows how to make the amendments when amendments are necessary,” Ray said.
Rutherford noted that as sheriff, he lobbied for a bill to get passed to remove the mentally ill and the drug addicted from jail. The first try, he couldn’t get it done; the second try, after building relationships, he did.
And Tanzler said his “absolute priority is to be on the House Armed Services Committee,” to “prioritize Northeast Florida’s needs and go after the fruit that we can pick.”
Kaufman, a veteran, noted that a BRAC is “on the horizon,” and that “this year alone, 150 House members have already voted for a BRAC.”
“We thought that NAS Cecil Field was safe; it wasn’t,” Kaufman said, noting that Mayport needed to be protected.
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Fighting terrorism was the next topic.
Pueschel gave a personal history of global terrorism, adding that “it’s coming here, and it’s already here.”
Ray said the solution was “don’t try to make them our friends … they’re here to harm and destroy.”
Ray said he “introduced legislation consistent with the Constitution … to allow our own governor” to perform background checks. It “failed in the Senate because of special interests.”
Rutherford pivoted back to Pulse.
“People say Omar Mateen was born in America. That’s true. But his father was a known Al Qaeda operative.”
He believes that vetting needs to be stronger.
Rutherford also noted that intelligence units had been pulled out of mosques, which could have prevented the Pulse atrocity.
Tanzler, meanwhile, seeks to empower counter-intelligence, and “stop the Syrian refugees until we know who is among them.”
McClure noted that in Italy, they “don’t recognize Islam as a religion, but a sect.”
He also noted that he has an AK-47.
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The question then went to how each candidate would work with Trump or Hillary Clinton, assuming one of them wins.
Ray: “Working with Donald Trump would be a pleasure … a real opportunity for our future.”
With Clinton, Ray would ensure that “the Constitution of the United States is obeyed,” and that the Congress would have to “make sure that we are representing the people of the United States,” rather than allow the president to function like a “dictator.”
Rutherford “looks forward to working with President Trump if he is successful,” but believes Congress has delegated too many of its powers to the executive branch.
“There is such overreach now by the executive branch,” Rutherford said, that he supports the REINS Act to restrict over-regulation of small business.
Tanzler, likewise, believes it’s “absolutely critical that Trump be elected,” given that he’s a “CEO that knows how to delegate,” and that he could use the “bully pulpit” to drive “serious changes that need to be made.”
Regarding Clinton, “the Supreme Court is a huge deal,” and a leftist court could “erode our constitutional base.”
Kaufman loves Trump also, calling him a “dealmaker.” In the case of Clinton, he would “hold her feet to the fire.”
“Let’s hope and pray Trump wins,” Kaufman said.
McClure likened himself to Trump as a job creator and an entrepreneur, noting that payroll taxes are 30 percent of the economy.
In the case of Clinton, McClure would work to “control the purse strings” and “change the rule of law” to ensure the national debt comes down.
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The next question was about the unique value add each candidate provides.
Rutherford noted that he is “not an ideologue” and has experience “building diverse coalitions.”
“We have got to send people to Washington, D.C. who can step out of their comfort zone and build coalitions,” Rutherford said.
Tanzler, meanwhile, cited his “diversity of experience,” including being a U.S. attorney and having “sophisticated business experience.”
Kaufman, likewise, discussed his experience in various sectors.
McClure is an “outsider … a businessman first … no, I don’t have a dynasty last name … I haven’t been a sheriff … I haven’t been a legislator for many years.”
And then, it got briefly interesting, with the three candidates who were called out responding to McClure.
Rutherford responded to McClure.
“There is no one at this table who has the experience dealing with local, state, and federal issues as much as a sheriff who’s dealt with the failures of Washington and Tallahassee.”
Ray noted that he has been an engineer, in addition to serving in office.
“Twenty-nine thousand dollars a year is not a career. I can make more than that billing at my engineering company,” Ray said.
Tanzler noted McClure “has been a county commissioner for awhile,” and his father’s “coattails were eaten by moths a long time ago.”
Ray went on to describe his dedication to port funding, his professional background, and his “experience that will make a difference for our area and our nation.”
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Trade was next. The candidates, in the vein of Trump, all wanted “fair trade.”
Ray noted “companies are coming back to the United States because we have the best products, and the cost differential is not that much.”
Rutherford, meanwhile, denounced the TPP and NAFTA for the negotiations with multiple countries, and denounced the export-import bank.
He also contended that a “repatriation exemption” for companies offshore could bring jobs back home.
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Candidates urged cuts of entire departments, with Rutherford noting the “degradation at Eureka Garden” as an example of HUD’s handiwork. The Department of Education likewise was not popular.
Then, the highlight of the debate: the candidates asking each other questions.
McClure wanted to know why Rutherford would not execute terrorists, instead imprisoning them for life; Rutherford, “adamantly opposed to the death penalty,” noted that there isn’t much cost differential between life imprisonment and the myriad appeals related to the death penalty.
“I do support moral wars. There is self-defense … lethal force to take dangerous felons into custody, I have no problem with it. But to take someone out of a cell where they pose no one a threat [and kill them] is wrong,” Rutherford said.
Ray also hit Rutherford for ever-increasing budgets, and the murder rate “that spun out of control.”
Rutherford noted that former mayor Alvin Brown had cut “237 crime fighters out of the budget,” an enforcement gap that took the murder rate from the lowest in 40 years in 2011 to the spike of recent years.
“In 2011, what happened? Brown was elected … Brown is still responsible, because Mayor Curry and Sheriff Williams are trying to get those officers back.”
Then Rutherford hit Tanzler on Tanzler’s recent charge that Rutherford’s opposition to the death penalty weakens national security.
Tanzler said that “as a Congressman … you need to kill people who are trying to kill us.”
Rutherford pointed out his belief in “moral war” and self-defense.
Then Tanzler hit Rutherford on the deportation of illegal immigrants.
“All of them that we uncovered we presented to ICE for deportation,” but after the handoff, Rutherford didn’t know what happened to them.
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This debate can be properly understood as one in a series of forums and debates ahead of the Aug. 30 primary. The candidates struggling for relevance lack enough policy differentiation to make a move without serious fundraising immediately.
There is a top tier in this race of Rutherford, Tanzler, and Ray. And then there is the rest of the field. And the rest of the field likely will be excluded from the most meaningful debate in this race: the televised one in mid-August.
