CD 4 Republicans clash in only TV debate, held in half-empty theater

Donald Trump and illegal immigrants; mass deportations and building the wall. Earmarks and limited government. NAFTA and TPP. ISIS and Black Lives Matter. NRA ratings and graveside pictures.

These were the topics.

A half-empty room and an hour of tepid exchanges. An enthusiasm gap from the crowd; an energy gap from the stage. At least, until the very end, where things got a bit more personal and more real.

These were the experiences of the only television debate in Florida’s 4th Congressional District race.

Though John Rutherford may be the prohibitive frontrunner, Bill McClure, Lake Ray, and Hans Tanzler got their chance to debate him Wednesday night in the only television debate before the Aug. 30 primary.

They didn’t capitalize on their chance to knock him off his perch.

The event, held at the half-full Swisher Theater on the Jacksonville University campus, brought together all candidates polling above 3 percent.

The intros started with Rutherford, who informed the crowd “Washington is broken,” before outlining his “history of staunch conservative leadership” and his history of dealing with “national security issues at the local, state, and federal level.”

McClure said that “too many people believe in the premise that a larger government will make our lives better, when nothing could be further from the truth.”

Tanzler, a “conservative outsider,” told his tale: a prosecutor of narcoterrorists in Miami, a tax attorney fighting the IRS, who has run the St. Johns Water Management Board.

Rep. Ray likewise gave his bio, and likewise is “fed up with what’s happening in Washington, D.C.” and believes it’s “time to send someone up there who represents us.”

“I am pro-veteran, and I want to make Florida the most veteran state in the nation,” Ray said.

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Debt reduction was the first topic.

Tanzler wants to “get the government off the backs of tax creators … so that the business creator is incentivized … to create the resources [needed] for a strong military.”

McClure asserts the problem is twofold: revenue and spending. The Fair Tax would help with the revenue issue; among his spending fixes, auditing the fed.

Ray recommended the federal government be run like the Florida Legislature, cutting agencies by 15 percent and holding them accountable.

And Rutherford wants cuts of the Department of Education and HUD “through attrition.”

****

The topic moved to priorities for Northeast Florida.

McClure wants to be on the Armed Services Committee, the Budget Subcommittee, and the Government Overreach panel, in pursuit of “limited government.”

Ray believes economic opportunities are passing Jacksonville by, citing JAXPORT and Mayport as priorities.

Rutherford, likewise, wants to be on Armed Services. And Transportation. And the Homeland Security Committee.

Tanzler, too, wants to be on the Armed Services Committee.

****

Earmarks were up next.

Ray believes the conversation should be “clear and transparent” and handled on the congressional level, given that a Dem administration is not friendly to Northeast Florida.

Tanzler asserted “all of the other candidates stated last week that they were for earmarks … the pork that extends to government … I’m against earmarks.”

Tanzler’s team sent out a hit on Rutherford earlier Wednesday, accusing him of supporting earmarks, but Tanzler didn’t exactly exploit that.

Instead, Tanzler advocated “teamwork and intelligence” to advance priorities.

“That will be challenging for all of us, because we’re all freshman congressmen.”

****

Support of Trump was the next topic.

Rutherford supports Trump now, but voted for Rubio in March. As did Ray and Tanzler. McClure was pro-Trump even in March, though.

The candidates were then compelled to defend a sampling of Trump’s more egregious statements.

“Though he often says things very poorly,” said Rutherford, “he’s often at his core correct.”

Rutherford specifically cited immigration, noting that while Jacksonville is not a “sanctuary city,” open borders are an issue.

Tanzler countered that “we are a sanctuary city … because of the policies of the sheriff’s office,” citing a Rutherford statement in 2006 that illegals should feel no “anxiety.”

As a result, Tanzler said, they got a “free pass for illegal entry.”

Rutherford repeated his contention that we’re not a sanctuary city, adding that his intent was to “quell the fears of victims” of violent crime. He had to defend his record on this against Lake Ray also.

McClure noted Trump has a tendency, like people in the Northeast do, to “say what rolls off their tongue.”

This was an endorsement.

****

Deporting 11 million illegals was next up.

Tanzler believes that while “costly,” it’s necessary to enforce the laws.

McClure wondered why everyone can’t come here legally, noting the “economic detriment” caused by unsealed borders.

“How can we afford not to?”

Ray wants to secure the border, and “identify these people.”

Rutherford urged corporations to use eVerify, which would force corporations not to hire illegals, who would then “self-deport.”

****

Building a wall was next.

McClure noted that the Secure Fence Act of 2006 mandated a physical wall, yet executive orders have thwarted the implementation of the wall.

Ray likewise supports a physical wall, as a reminder that “the United States is not free to walk in.”

Rutherford believes an electronic wall for part of the border would be a substitute for a physical wall, noting that the current “tunnels are amazing.”

Tanzler agreed with everyone, adding that the wall needs to be “identifiable and effective,” and that people should immigrate through Ellis Island.

***

NAFTA and the TPP were up next.

Ray opposes it: “we are negotiating against ourselves … it’s time for us to do bilateral agreements.”

Rutherford, likewise, is a “fair trade” guy, and negotiating with 28 countries doesn’t cut it.

Tanzler, likewise, believes TPP is a “bad trade deal” that “creates a one-way street against us.”

And McClure? He believes that true free trade isn’t beholden to special interests.

****

The cavalcade continued with a discussion of ISIS and a Muslim ban.

Rutherford wants to ban everyone that can’t be vetted, contending that “we can better help [Mideast refugees]” in “safe zones” in their countries.

Tanzler contended strengthening the military is the solution: “war has been declared on us by radical Islam” and “stopping them before they enter is paramount.”

Tanzler, however, would not ban all Muslims; those willing to assimilate merit a shot at the American Dream.

McClure believes that “the cancer of America” comes from our ignorance of the “rule of law” and immigrants wanting Sharia law instead of “our Christianity.”

Meanwhile, Ray mentioned his state legislation for the vetting of refugees.

****

Black Lives Matter was next.

Rutherford believes “they should be labeled a hate group” for their “horrible rhetoric” attacking police, linking it to the murder of police.

“They use their rhetoric to light the fuse,” Rutherford said.

Tanzler agrees that BLM is a “hate group” and found a way to advocate for the death penalty in the process.

McClure asserted that “selective enforcement because of the color of your skin is horrible,” but “this is not necessarily a race issue.”

Ray, meanwhile, asserted that “all lives matter.”

“It’s obvious that there are disagreements between races,” Ray said, and a “conversation” is needed.

****

Tanzler’s NRA rating, an AQ instead of the claimed A, was up next.

Tanzler acknowledged he got an AQ rating, contending Rutherford is no friend of “stand your ground” and the 2nd Amendment.

“He may have had campaign conversion and gotten the application correct, but history is history.”

Rutherford said “like the A rating, all the other charges you’ve heard are false.”

Rutherford opposed warning shots being included as part of Stand Your Ground.

****

McClure got a hit also, on his 2014 accusation of Medicaid fraud.

“If I’d done something wrong, I wouldn’t be standing here in front of these people,” McClure stammered, calling the investigation a “witch hunt” driven by a disgruntled employee.

Then Ray got hit for being photographed at a veteran’s cemetery, using it in a campaign tweet, as we reported first months ago.

Ray noted that his wife’s father was a Pearl Harbor survivor, and that he was honoring his legacy.

“There was no violation that was in there. If there are violations, there are others on this stage with true violations.”

“It was shenanigans that were put on by a former sheriff,” Ray said, getting applause from his contingent.

****

Will this debate change the trajectory of this race? Not likely.

Maybe stronger candidates could have knocked Rutherford off his perch.

But they weren’t in this group.