Jim Rosica
The battle over a proposed constitutional ban on greyhound racing is heating up, as ban opponents served a cease and desist letter on the group promoting an end to dog racing.
The Committee to Support Greyhounds said it hit the Protect Dogs — Yes on 13 campaign with the letter on Monday.
At issue: The “use of and subsequent alteration without permission of video artwork belonging to Jeff Sonksen,” a greyhound racing supporter, in a “Yes on 13” media ad.
“13” refers to Amendment 13, placed on the November statewide ballot by the 2017-18 Constitution Revision Commission. It would outlaw betting on dog races in Florida beginning in 2021.
Greyhound owners and breeders, who oppose the ban, have challenged the proposed amendment in court; a trial is set for next month in Tallahassee. Proposed amendments need at least 60 percent approval to be added to the state constitution.
The proposal also would allow other gambling at tracks, such as card games, to continue even after dog racing ends. In Florida, live dog racing is still conducted at 12 tracks.
Jennifer Rosenblum, an attorney representing Sonksen, explained in a news release that “the owner of a copyrighted work has the exclusive right to control how and where the work, or any derivative thereof, is published.”
“We hope the members of Yes on 13 recognize the importance of respecting Mr. Sonksen’s work and pending copyright and will take all necessary and appropriate steps to cooperate in rectifying this infringement,” said Rosenblum, whose online bio says she also “formed her own charity (to) assist in the placement of retired racing greyhounds.”
Added Sonksen: “I’ve spent six months as an average citizen — an outsider — looking into greyhound racing and how the dogs are treated. I’ve spent thousands of dollars and countless hours making these videos. The greyhound videos are my property.
“This group has to steal my videos, slow them down and darken the imagery to make it look sinister,” he said. “They steal my videos because they themselves have not taken the time to see the inside of a racing kennel.”
And Jennifer Newcome, chairman of the Committee to Support Greyhounds, said her group was “happy to support Mr. Sonksen’s measures to get justice not only for himself, but also for all of the greyhounds.”
“The radical animal activists have not only stolen this footage, they have also altered it to deliberately deceive every Floridian who has viewed it,” Newcome said in a statement. “This certainly gives the people of Florida cause to question the integrity and credibility of this Yes on 13 activist group …”
Updated 4:30 p.m. — Protect Dogs — Yes on 13 released the following statement in response to the cease and desist letter.
“This morning, we received a letter from an attorney who claims to represent dog racing promoter Jeff Sonksen. In recent months, Sonksen has documented commercial greyhound racing in Florida, and posted video footage on Facebook.
“We are not surprised that the greyhound industry is now trying to hide evidence of greyhound confinement. This is the industry’s dirty little secret: Greyhounds are confined for 20 to 23 hours per day at Florida racetracks, kept in warehouse-style kennels in rows of stacked metal cages.
“We have an absolute right, protected by the First Amendment, the Fair Use doctrine, and anti-SLAPP laws, to share his footage with Florida voters. In fact, Sonksen himself has stated that his footage is ‘without a doubt …. the truth about greyhound racing,’ and that he wants the public to ‘see the truth’ through his videos.
“Florida voters deserve a full and fair debate, and we are confident that when they have all the facts, they will vote ‘yes’ on Amendment 13.”
207 comments
steven Grabarczyk
June 25, 2018 at 4:48 pm
Talk about hiding, why is there NEVER any name attached to their BS rebuttals?????
steven Grabarczyk
June 25, 2018 at 4:48 pm
The Fair Use Act does not allow you to alter the footage and does not allow for paid political advertisements
Fred Barton
June 26, 2018 at 10:25 am
Sorry Stevie, but you’re wrong. There are four tests that measure proposer use of the fiat use doctrine. Here’s the relevant ones:
The first factor is “the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes.” To justify the use as fair, one must demonstrate how it either advances knowledge or the progress of the arts through the addition of something new.
Educational purposes, Stevie. Which is probably why you don’t want people seeing it, huh?
Andy
July 5, 2018 at 1:49 am
Every open minded person reading this get on Facebook and find grey2scam page, watch the video about W W Flicka and see how Kate McFail flat out LIED to the CRC. That is exactly how these crooks operate
Eric Jackson
July 5, 2018 at 2:32 am
The only thing people will find on those pages is more delusional thinking from people like you, Andy. You’ve lied so much on these pages that you wouldn’t know the truth if it was wearing a name badge that said, “Hi, My Name Is… The Truth” and shook your hand, introducing itself.
Andy
July 6, 2018 at 12:45 pm
Says the captain if lies
ANIMAL LIBERATION FRONT ANIMAL LIBERATION FRONT ANIMAL LIBERATION FRONT ANIMAL LIBERATION FRONT. Any person with eyes can see her picture on the site, weirdo. You know what made America Al, GOD GUNS GUTS, AND RIC FLAIR WOOOOOO
Andy
July 6, 2018 at 3:57 pm
That doesn’t say much about the PAC representing you and your criminal cohorts if they steal other peoples pics and videos does it?
Don Goldstein
June 25, 2018 at 5:09 pm
The racing industry will do anything to hide the fact that racing greyhounds are confined in cages 20-23 hours a day! That is no way to treat these wonderful dogs.
Joe T
June 25, 2018 at 5:21 pm
Don, you lost your credibility when you lied on air about the crate sizes, you know nothing except what the mother ship tells you to say
Laura L. Chamberlain
June 25, 2018 at 8:25 pm
Don, do you honestly think that a dog could keep the build of an athlete and perform if it had been kept in a kennel for that long? Use some common sense. T
steven grabarczyk
June 25, 2018 at 6:03 pm
Keep on LYING Don
Elena
June 25, 2018 at 6:06 pm
Sir, please go visit a racing kennel and get First hand knowledge before you believe the garbage you have been told and memorized.
Jody Johnson
June 25, 2018 at 6:07 pm
How can the dogs be in crates that many hours and be expected to race well? That doesn’t compute.
Andy
July 4, 2018 at 7:40 pm
Nothing they say computes, because it’s LIES
Andy
July 5, 2018 at 9:20 pm
Sure they all remain lies, that’s why you can go to FB now on our PACS home page and read all about the blackmail scheme Thiel was involved in, just like anyone can Google dorchak ALF and see her picture right there on the website, just like anyone can find the solicitation video and the court transcripts where the Queen of scam contradicts herself. You, just like your criminal company, are a FRAUD. Even tell the dimwits that donate it’s a ‘ non profit’ what a joke. Floridians will not be taken in by your crimes pal, get your Hillary safe room ready….. Ie….Mama’s basement. Hey, did you just watch our great President in MT at his rally, MAKING AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!!!!. Please run Maxine Waters, long live the NRA too
Eric Jackson
July 5, 2018 at 9:34 pm
At least you’ve acknowledged they’re all lies.
Now, what about your position at Ebro? Are you going to answer that simple question?
Andy
July 6, 2018 at 5:21 am
You know, if anything you say is true, it is also true that white is black and black is white. The proof of greed2scam is there for all to see, have you committed crimes in the name of ALF too, or just grey2k?
Jody Johnson
June 25, 2018 at 6:11 pm
Keeping pups in crates that many hours would not promote good racing. That doesn’t make sense
Cheri Wagner
June 25, 2018 at 8:15 pm
How many dog owners go to work each day & leave their dogs kenneled?
Should you go after them?
Don Goldstein check your facts! Greyhounds do do sit on kennels for hours!
Lamonte
June 26, 2018 at 6:24 am
Why are you people complaining about greyhound racing. Nobody’s riding on dog backs, or beating them To make them run. These animals love to run even if they weren’t chasing anything they love to run. Why don’t you go after horse racing and the dog racing alone. Yeah are you scared because of the money behind it.
Joee Kam
June 25, 2018 at 10:13 pm
Reread your comment and really think about how this statement could actually be true. On everage, the dogs are turned out (let outside to do their business and chill out with their kennelmates) five times a day. Each turn out is typically 30-90 minutes depending on the weather.
On-non race days, they exercise in a sprint path with a couple of their kennelmates, get a massage, maybe spend some time in the whirlpool, for the ones that have them, and so on. The dogs race approximately every 3-4 days and are out of their crates before and after their race for extended periods of time.
Also, for educational purposes, let’s say a kennel has 60 dogs in it. You probably haven’t thought too much about this, but the crates need to be cleaned daily, which means the dogs cannot be in the crates at the same time, right? Where are the dogs while their crates are being freshened up? Outside in the turnout pens.
How long do you think it would take a couple of people to pull out all of the old bedding in the crates and put new bedding in them anyway? Yup, more than just a few minutes. Now how long do you think they are out of their crates in a day?
Eric Jackson
June 29, 2018 at 2:32 pm
Joee, did you try doing your own math? Five turnouts, 30 minutes each = 2-1/2 hours. That would mean you are saying the dogs are left in their cages for as much as 22-1/2 hours per day. Thank you for confirming that.
wtb
July 1, 2018 at 4:10 pm
five turnouts 90 minutes each =6 hours 30 min. …..as always skewing facts.
Eric Jackson
July 1, 2018 at 6:09 pm
Sorry, WTB, but the industry has repeatedly given the numbers – and they are that the dogs are locked in cages for up to 22 hours per day. You haven’t contradicted that.
wtb
July 2, 2018 at 7:10 am
Same people here, Eric, Don, Fred,Sonia repeating the same talking points; repeatedly calling anything different from their lies, skewed data, or stolen altered pictures wrong.
6 hours and 30 minutes plus 22 hours equals 28 hours. Math does not work. The dogs are turned out 6 hours per day, weather permitting.Even feeding bowl sanitization is regulated for the racing greyhound. These dogs are better cared for than most pets.
Eric, Don, and Fred, I have been in multiple kennels, at different tracks, and in several states within the last 18 months. Not one of you can say the same. Unlike you, I do not man a keyboard repeating propaganda from a radical activist group. Your mind will not be changed, out to exercise with my hounds.
Julianne Hook
June 26, 2018 at 12:36 am
Don, where do you get your information? Have you been to a kennel? Which one does what you say? These wonderful dogs are wonderful because of the wonderful treatment and love they receive. Think for yourself do the research.
Darcie
June 26, 2018 at 7:58 am
Do you think Michael Phelps won 28 medals (23 gold) by sitting on his sofa all day? How does ANY athlete perform at a high level if they sit around all day?? Where is your common sense?
Mary Stewart
June 25, 2018 at 5:09 pm
Isn’t that ironic? The public was told again and again and again that the “truth” needed to be exposed. Yet when the truth was exposed they freaked out because they don’t want people to add the numbers themselves to determine the true amount of confinement. 20-23 hours a day per greyhound racing industry insiders. I guess the truth really does hurt, and as we all know it sucks for the dogs. No animal should be kept caged Day after day, month after month, year after year for 20-23 hours per day. That is animal cruelty. Period.
steven grabarczyk
June 25, 2018 at 6:04 pm
I challenge you to lay in your bed 20-23 hours a day for 1 year and see if you can walk much less run 45 MPH
Joee Kam
June 25, 2018 at 10:31 pm
Does sitting on the couch eating ice cream, drinking Diet Coke and eating Little Debby snacks in front of the tv mean you wouldn’t be fit enough to run a marathon?
Andy
July 4, 2018 at 8:16 am
That’s what Fred does, except with a keyboard in his fat lap
William C Grabow
June 25, 2018 at 6:04 pm
its not true, they wouldnt have the muscle tone if they are crated 20-23 hours a day, use some common sense
Sandra Morgan
June 25, 2018 at 8:59 pm
Go check them out for yourself, they aren’t created thatlong by any means.
Danielle O'Donnell
June 25, 2018 at 9:17 pm
It’s funny that not one of you know the actual truth about how long a greyhound is crated each day. “20-23 hours” is what you’ve read, it is not the truth. You can sit here and type your “20-23 hours a day in a crate” all day but you can’t ask for the truth? I didn’t believe in racing before I got the chance to go in the kennel because of the stories I was told, and stupidly listened to. I never left the kennel since that first day I went in almost 10 years ago. Just in the last 7 years alone I’ve witnessed over 10,000 turn outs MYSELF. Can Grey2k say that? They can’t even get a picture or video on their own. My own pets in my house don’t spend as much time outside as our greyhounds do. My pets in my house aren’t nearly as active as our greyhounds. My pets in my house do nothing but sleep the entire time they are in the house, just like the greyhounds in the kennel do when they are in their crates. They also eat the same food and get the same treats and bones the greyhounds in the kennel too and have never had any major health problems. The dogs love their crates, it’s where they get to comfortably nap for a couple hours until the next turn out. Kennels do 4-5 turn outs a day. The dogs are outside 7-10 hours a day, depending on weather. That doesn’t include any other activities in or out of the kennel which mostly all involve another turn out after for each dog. When they leave the kennel, they come back through the turn out pen, always, and are let out to do their business, play, dig a hole, lay in the sun/ shade before returning to their crate, that they love, so they can nap until the next turn out where they again get to do their business, play, dig a hole, lay in the sun/ shade, etc. I learned to never believe one side of a story and to always look into something myself before making an opinion. You all should do the same.
D Jean
June 25, 2018 at 5:09 pm
Regardless of the legal semantics , the fact is racing greyhounds are confined to cages more than double the hours pet owners would consider acceptable for their family dog.
William C Grabow
June 25, 2018 at 5:59 pm
its their safe place and they sleep up to 18 years a day, I know people that crate their dog over night and while they go to work so your reasoning is so wrong ( and they are not greyhounds)
Cpatte
June 25, 2018 at 6:17 pm
This is not true. They spend about 5-6hrs every day outside lounging about and interacting with other dogs as their kennel spaces are cleaned and sanitised 2x/day. This doesn’t include the time they spend “at the gym” training for their day job with other small groups of dogs. They also have people surrounding them approximately 20hrs per day, where most pet dogs are alone 8-10hrs while their owners work.
As an attorney myself, copyrights and intellectual property must vigorously be defended by the owner. Fair use in the public domain does not give someone the right to materially alter,
Change, or manipulate an image for their own purposes. Ask Nike and others how that works against competitors. Moreover, copyright issues are federal matters and federal court is a long, expensive process if the “yes” group fails to heed the cease and desist letter.
Joan Lando
June 26, 2018 at 12:11 am
Give us footage if the dogs are well cared for
William C Grabow
June 26, 2018 at 9:22 am
Joan give us footage of them being in crates 20-23 hours a day, You have no proof, go sit there and time it Please so your can back up your fake claims
Jennifer Newcome
June 26, 2018 at 9:54 am
Joan, you can see how the greyhounds of Florida REALLY live here…
https://www.facebook.com/greyhoundchronicles/
Leigh
June 25, 2018 at 7:22 pm
Really? You think a dog can be kept fit and ready to race by being confined 20-23 hours? Think about this logically for a moment. It is an impossibility. What you do not know about the Greyhound is astounding. Did you ever stop to just *think* about what is actually being spewed out? Or did you just think that, “wow that makes sense?” There will be no domestic animals if the AR wing nuts get their way. What then? Honestly, what then?
Sandra Morgan
June 25, 2018 at 9:00 pm
Thesedogs spend more time out and about then mine does!!
Patti Kacer
June 29, 2018 at 6:32 pm
Sorry, my retired greyhounds spend lots of time in their crates, probably more than active racers. It’s their comfy place to sleep, sometimes eat, or chew on a bone, with no interruptions.
Andy
July 4, 2018 at 6:30 pm
And now we have yet ANOTHER lie, Lying Kate Mcfail of scam group HSUS; spoke in front of CRC about WW Flicka, who she said was missing, well go to our PAC’ s Facebook page for proof she was never missing. Can’t help but think the avalanche of lies will be exposed in court. These people are liars on a grand scale
Patti Peterson
July 4, 2018 at 6:41 pm
A race Greyhound should not be compared to a pet Greyhound. Different life, different schedules, different food, etc. Race Greyhounds ARE working dogs. Much like police dogs, service dogs, search and rescue dogs, sled dogs, water rescue dogs, hunting dogs, and guard/watch dogs. These are just a few examples. Greyhounds aren’t the only breed characterized as working dogs.
Joyce Carta
June 25, 2018 at 5:12 pm
Truth is indisputable, and the truth is that racing greyhounds live their sad, sorry “racing career” lives in cages that don’t even allow a good stretch. Hour after miserable hour these loving, social animals are sentenced to confinement on shredded newspaper or carpet remnants if they’re lucky. Floridians love dogs enough to want better lives for these animals. Amendment 13 will succeed in November because Floridians will no longer be complicit or compliant with obvious animal abuse. This amendment will pass and dog racing will end in Florida. YES ON 13.
Joe T
June 25, 2018 at 6:03 pm
Joyce you abuse animal every time you hitch them up to a cart or wagon, Dont be a hypocrite
steven grabarczyk
June 25, 2018 at 6:05 pm
Joyce you are nothing but liars and thieves, the Florida people WILL the right through your BS, you can take that to the bank.
Sandra Morgan
June 25, 2018 at 9:02 pm
Have you taken the time to go to the kennels, I used to think like you until I actually went?
KL
June 25, 2018 at 9:52 pm
You are so off the mark with your comments. I am sorry that you have bought the lies and have likely not investigated or visited a kennel to inform yourself of the facts with your own eyes. Rise above the noise on both sides of the issues and see for yourself rather than relying on spoonfed information from the AR talking papers
julianne hook
June 26, 2018 at 12:45 am
Wow ..go to a track visit a racing kennel..think for yourself and do your research. You will be happier knowing the truth of how well these hounds are taken care of and loved.
Lori Bruce
June 26, 2018 at 7:39 am
If your group is so concerned with showing “the truth”, why did you alter the footage?
Andy
June 27, 2018 at 9:23 am
She is a hypocrite like all of them, all about donations. The amendment will not pass. ” Don’t even allow a good stretch ” shows the stupidity of their argument.
David H
June 25, 2018 at 5:16 pm
Fair Act does not allow you to steal photos from others accounts to use and twist the facts. Grey2k was sued once before deceptive practices and lost, and it WILL happen again, since they are the ones fronting the money for this farce of an amendment
Janet Skinner
June 25, 2018 at 5:17 pm
The dog racing industry is understandably upset about the public being able to see what racing greyhound confinement looks like. When I speak to concerned Floridians, they are always very disturbed to hear that these gentle dogs are caged 20-23 hours per day, with nothing but shredded newspaper or carpet remnants for bedding. Their own pet dogs sleep on expensive, comfy dog beds, if not the sofa! Compassionate dog lovers in the Sunshine State will certainly join me in voting YES on 13 in November!
Joe T
June 25, 2018 at 5:23 pm
if they want to believe your lies they are closed minded and too lazy to go see for themselves, and dont count on getting enough to support you at the polls,
SAVE THE GREYHOUNDS… VOTE NO ON 13
steven grabarczyk
June 25, 2018 at 6:08 pm
No only the people who ridiculously think a dog can be cooped up that long in a cage and still function as an athlete will vote for this moronic Amendment
Bruce
June 25, 2018 at 7:59 pm
Have you gone and seen for yourself? Spent a full day out of your busy life to observe? To learn?
To know the real truth? Your comments expose the fact that you have not. The kennel operators have nothing to hide. The race track operators have nothing to hide. Show up unannounced and spend the day with a kennel. They have nothing to hide.
Don’t let ignorance and a closed mind stand in the way of truth
Joee Kam
June 25, 2018 at 10:58 pm
Are carpet remnants really that appalling? They’re just pieces of carpet that aren’t large enough to carpet an entire room or styles that the mill isn’t producing anymore. It’s wall to wall carpet for the crates if you look at it that way.
I recently purchased a remnant that was bound on the edges and it’s in my living room. The area rug looks great and no one would ever know I paid a mere fraction of the cost of another rug that looked similar to it. I do love a good bargain!
Tabbatha Couch
June 27, 2018 at 6:01 am
If they were so upset about people seeing what goes on inside the kennels they wouldn’t have let sonksen in and make hundreds of hours of footage showing exactly what goes on inside and let him post it all over social media.
robinw
June 27, 2018 at 7:21 am
The only people who take Sonken and his “work” seriously are the people in the industry who see him as their saviour.
Jennifer Newcome
June 28, 2018 at 2:45 pm
And don’t forget the 1million+ Floridians who have committed to #VoteNoOn13 thanks to Jeffs first hand, behind the scenes footage of the #TRUTH from all across Florida.
What’s sad is that lying activist groups have to rely on stealing and altering footage to push their propaganda. It’s painfully obvious that they have no “proof” of their own, and have to rely on distortion and deception to “support” their lies. #PATHETIC
robinw
June 28, 2018 at 3:44 pm
I say, keep his videos coming! He’s our biggest asset. Well, actually your commercials are our biggest asset 🙂
Jennifer Newcome
June 28, 2018 at 6:36 pm
I wouldn’t get too smug if I were you. The recent unbiased poll showed that only 46% will vote yes, while 37% will vote no and 17% are undecided. Certainly not the 70% that your people claim to have. At that rate, your side has alot more ground to make up, doesn’t it? 😉
Wanda Bright
June 25, 2018 at 5:20 pm
Greyhound Pets of America – National
5 June at 12:10 ·
Greyhound Pets of America (“GPA”), the oldest and largest Greyhound adoption organization in the United States, is releasing this response regarding our position on the scheduled upcoming vote in Florida on Amendment 13. GPA’s founding charter provides that neither the national organization nor its chapter members take any official position on the political issues surrounding professional Greyhound racing, and this of course precludes our taking a “for” or “against” position on Amendment 13. However, we are not precluded from bringing several facts to your attention:
1. As the American public has discovered, retired racing Greyhounds make wonderful pets. It has been our observation as Greyhound adoption volunteers that Greyhounds make such wonderful pets precisely because of, not in spite of, the manner in which they are bred, trained and treated during their racing careers. We value the partnership that the Greyhound adoption community has developed with the Greyhound racing community to help insure that every Greyhound has a pet home to retire to at the end of its athletic career.
2. We find it ironic that the group campaigning for Amendment 13 calls itself “The Committee to Protect Dogs,” yet it actually does no work in Greyhound adoption and doesn’t participate, financially or otherwise, in the rehoming of a single retired racing Greyhound. GPA chapters and other Greyhound adoption groups throughout the United States have Greyhound adoption well covered, such that we are now at or near 100% adoption of all racing Greyhounds at the end of their racing careers. We’d like to suggest that the Committee to Protect Dogs live up to its name and use some or all of the reported seven figures it is spending on political ads to rehome and thus actually protect the thousands of unwanted dogs sitting in pounds and shelters throughout Florida.
3. GPA is very concerned that Amendment 13 contains no provision whatsoever for the funding of the unprecedented effort that will be required if thousands of racing Greyhounds are put out of work over a short period of time if Amendment 13 passes the public vote in November. Likewise, there is no indication that the ironically-named “Committee to Protect Dogs” has budgeted a single dollar to help with that effort if it achieves its political goal of ending Greyhound racing in Florida. Some of the politicians who advanced Amendment 13 through the CRC process have provided vague assurances that some unnamed animal shelters stand ready to rehome the displaced Greyhounds, but we know through years of experience specializing in Greyhound adoption that general animal shelters do not have the knowledge or experience necessary to properly screen prospective homes so that former racing Greyhounds go to optimum homes. Therefore, we hope that Florida voters will give this consequence due consideration as they decide how they will vote on Amendment 13.
robinw
June 26, 2018 at 10:02 am
GPA is afraid that they are going to go out of business. That’s all.
Jennifer Newcome
June 26, 2018 at 4:22 pm
Go out of business? They are not a business, they are a non profit organization. They do not benefit in any way financially from greyhound racing…
wanda
June 26, 2018 at 4:22 pm
Nope, GPA is not a business. They actually are non profit, volunteer based. I just want to know exactly which kennels, which tracks, and when this alleged abuse happened. I keep asking, but there are no specifics. Professional racing greyhounds are more regulated than any sport; if you have proof of any abuse and report it, it is swiftly taken care of. If no proof and not reported, then someone is enabling. #VoteNoOn13
Joe T
June 27, 2018 at 5:21 pm
robinw your brainless with your stupid comments. only people that dont believe what they see and only believe what their ignorant leaders says is plain stupidity
Jennifer Newcome
June 25, 2018 at 5:21 pm
What the “Yes on 13” Committee did here was a blatant attempt at deception as well as stealing Mr. Sonksens footage and altering it to suit their false propaganda. They CANNOT use and/or alter the property of someone else in conjunction with a political campaign of any form without the permission of the owner of said property. I am certainly not surprised at this callous attempt at deception, as that is how they operate. I would suggest that if they want to use footage to push their false and misleading propaganda, they use footage that has been taken by them themselves. They have admitted in their statment that they did indeed steal this footage, and have put their own credibility and integrity into question by the actions that they have chosen to take. No integrity, no credibility and no morals. #VoteNoOn13
Patti Peterson
June 25, 2018 at 5:37 pm
The racing crates are much larger than my 48″ crates that I use for my Greyhounds (which is standard in most adoptive homes). They can stand up, turn around, roach, etc. in the racing crates. As well, my own Greyhounds can do the same in my 48″ crates. Grey2K, while you’re surfing Facebook for photos and/or videos to steal, you’ve probably seen many photos of PEOPLE inside crates with the racing Greyhounds. Yes, that shows you how large they are. But you will always deny the truth just so you can shut down another track. When all the tracks are shut down, how will you fund your enterprise?
The Greyhounds at the track get turnouts more frequently and longer than my own Greyhounds. Are you going to shut me down? How often is your own Greyhound outside?
Eric Jackson
June 29, 2018 at 2:36 pm
I don’t know that I would be holding the racing industry up as a model of how to treat greyhounds, especially when it comes to leaving them caged.
Andy
July 5, 2018 at 9:19 am
Also you honest people can google ” blackmail grey2k west virginia and its says, and i quote, ‘ GREY2K LINKED TO FEDERAL ARREST EXTORTION PLOT”, and there you have it. I’m no Rhodes scholar, but I do believe extortion is another word for BLACKMAIL
Eric Jackson
July 5, 2018 at 12:23 pm
You certainly aren’t a Rhodes Scholar. You should try reading instead of just looking at the pictures. The truth is out there if you just seek it, Andy.
Andy
July 6, 2018 at 12:52 pm
Correct, I’m not a Rhodes Scholar, yet I’m not a 4 vegan weirdo either
Andy
July 5, 2018 at 6:57 pm
Are you going to answer the question of how it is a lie calling dorkchak a liar when 1, She provides explicit detail in the video the so called ” accident ” 2. In court transcripts she has ” no memory” . Therefore, either she is lying in the video, or she is committing PERJURY, which, of course, is LYING. Or, how ggrey2scum is not aligned with ALF when dorkchak’s picture is indisputedly right there on their website. Of course you’re not, because both are true, like all the other fraud is true. My connection with Ebro has nothing whatsoever to do with the getting ever longer list of fraud and lying, stealing pictures etc of you and your criminal cohorts. Even if I only drove the tractor as you put it at EBRO it would be, unlike what you and your criminal cohorts are involved in, be an, HONEST job.
Eric Jackson
July 5, 2018 at 8:28 pm
I’ve addressed every one of your allegations, multiple times. They all remain lies.
So, again, what is your connection to Ebro, since you claimed you wanted me to visit?
Bryan Wilson
June 25, 2018 at 5:40 pm
This lawsuit is the greyhound racing industry’s response to the public exposure of the real life these greyhounds live, a life of cages and confinement. The public has a right to see how these dogs live.
Lori Bruce
June 26, 2018 at 7:40 am
The lawsuit is because this group took someone else’s videos and altered them to fit their own agenda. You want to see video of how the dogs live, please visit greyhoundchronicles.net.
Jen
June 26, 2018 at 10:55 am
The funny part here is that the stolen clip is from a video that is actually giving exposure to how the greys really live in a racing kennel. Maybe you should check the original out?
Marie
June 25, 2018 at 5:42 pm
Protect Dogs campaign is going to keeping deflecting away from the issue that they actually failed the greyhounds rather than protect. The campaign and Grey@K who are running the show did not feel it necessary to ban simulcast greyhound racing. They only banned LIVE greyhound racing that is held in Florida. So you can still be a Floridian and bet on greyhound racing even though the race will be streaming from another state outside of Florida. Simulcast greyhound racing are not inanimate objects on a tv screen. Don’t their lives matter too.
Tim
June 25, 2018 at 6:05 pm
Do you not read what Jeff said???? “They are using my video’s because they have not visited the kennels themselves”. You want to come on here and say that crap that we don’t want you to see in the kennels…BRING IT ON!!! That is our whole point, NONE of you visit the kennels!! Even the 37 members of the Constitutional Revision Committee, only TWO, YES TWO!!! Went to visit a kennel, no what they voted……….NO!!!! So you want to talk about us not wanting to see this, BS! That is exactly what the dog people have been wanting, and ASKING for since this scam of a ballot question came up!! The problem here is, that they are taking pictures and modifying them to suit their agenda!! We encourage ALL of you that are not sure what to think with all the crap being spewed, PLEASE!! By ALL means, check with someone at a racetrack near you, and find out how you can go see FOR YOURSELF!!! If you don’t like it, than fine, at least you made your OWN decision!!That is what the dog people want!! And I think you are going to be quite surprised!! Jeff Sonkson anti-racing, until he learned on his own!! So please, I beg you!! Do it yourself!!
Eric Jackson
June 29, 2018 at 2:38 pm
Are you offering access to racing kennels for GREY2K USA Worldwide and the Committee to Protect Dogs? Tell us where and when and we’ll be happy to show up with cameras.
Ron C.
July 1, 2018 at 1:35 am
Actually, you won’t. You have invited multiple times to visit farms and kennels. You have declined all of them.
Eric Jackson
July 1, 2018 at 10:28 am
Another blatant falsehood. I have never been invited to a kennel or farm by someone with actual authority to provide access. This is a common lie spread by pro-racers.
robinw
July 1, 2018 at 11:56 am
I’ve visited. Why do you think I’m so AR? The track and kennel visited pushed me over the edge. I went from being mildly AR to rabidly AR thanks to the kennels and tracks.
Kelly Faircloth
June 25, 2018 at 6:18 pm
Greyhounds are caged, confined, locked up for 20-23 hours a day. These dogs “who love to run” don’t get to do that very often, do they? And when they do, they risk injury and death at the track.
In all of this noise about dollars, property, etc., only one thing matters. Greyhounds don’t deserve to be exploited and treated like their lives are only worth winnings at the track.
Floridians are animal lovers, and they will not stand for dogs being treated as anything less than the beloved family members that they should be allowed to be.
#VoteYesOn13
Patti K
June 25, 2018 at 6:35 pm
You are correct Kelly, Floridians are animal lovers. I know I love my 8 retired greyhounds and love how they come to me knowing what affection and being spoiled means, thanks to dedicated training staff who cared for them. We have 7 crates in our home, all now voluntarily occupied by our retirees. Is that abuse too?
steven grabarczyk
June 25, 2018 at 6:43 pm
Why don’t you or ANY of your ilk encourage people to go to the kennels to see this abuse first hand??????? Clearly if it is as rampant as you and others say it would be IMPOSSIBLE to cover up!
Sonia Stratemann
June 25, 2018 at 8:12 pm
Steve, I have taken many people to the kennels and I think it’s great that people do see the videos of how the dogs are housed. I encourage people to go see for themselves but we all know that you can’t just walk in. Regardless, you can’t say that people opposing your side are all lying. I certainly don’t lie, I speak from years of experience. I wanted to learn everything that I could about the greyhounds lives at the track so I helped with turnouts and spent countless hours at our local tracks compound. You see the videos as a great way for dogs to live while dog lovers see the awful confinement. Racing greyhounds spend the majority of their day in a cage , or a small turnout pen muzzled with dozens of other dogs. They are left in their cage all night while the kennel workers go home to their families. This is not the way dogs should live. They are companion animals and deserve to be treated as loving members of a family, not kept in a building full of cages.
tabbatha couch
June 25, 2018 at 10:04 pm
How often and long are ur ponies kept in stalls? How is being on a polo pony, kicking it’s ribs, slapping it with a whip, ramming it into other horses bruising it with mallets etc for hours any better? It’s not it’s worse!That’s all for trophies and money and prestige. You can’t force a dog to run and it’s certainly not being kicked in the ribs.
Andy
June 26, 2018 at 6:25 am
Notice no response to that
Sonia Stratemann
June 26, 2018 at 6:27 am
oh, Tabbatha. My very spoiled pleasure horses have nothing to do with the fact that racing greyhounds live a sad life of confinement. One has nothing to do with the other but you manage to insult a very large group of equestrians every time that you bring this up. Keep going because you only help our fight. If you could actually prove that I am incorrect in anything that I comment on, you wouldn’t bring up such outlandish claims that are so far off subject.
William C Grabow
June 26, 2018 at 9:35 am
Poor Sonia lost all credibility when lying on camera at the CRC meetings, your talking about confinement of animals and polo ponies confined in stalls is the same as greyhounds that are crated a hell of a lot less than 20 hours a day, who is on a greyhound making it run? who is on a polo pony making it run, you are filled with so much hate you cant think clearly. People crate home pets all day while at work and then again over night. Greyhounds are classified as working animals.
tabbatha couch
June 30, 2018 at 3:12 pm
Don’t you like how she keeps harping on our lies about her horses, which are not lies. Everyone knows that horses are kept in stalls except turn outs. She’s just trying to deflect by saying we are the liars so no one looks into her personal business. But if grey2k gets their way they’ll start on horse racing next as a way to fund their vacations and extravagant lifestyles.
Andy
July 2, 2018 at 9:30 am
Let’s not forget grey2k is aligned with Animal Liberation front
Bruce
June 25, 2018 at 7:54 pm
Have you gone and seen for yourself? The kennel operators have nothing to hide. The race track operators have nothing to hide. Show up unannounced and spend the day with a kennel. They have nothing to hide.
Don’t let ignorance and a closed mind stand in the way of truth.
Eric Jackson
June 29, 2018 at 2:39 pm
When and where should we show up with our cameras, Bruce? Do you run a kennel that will allow access or are you just making stuff up on the fly?
Seriously, if you want us to visit a kennel, you tell us where and when and we’ll be there.
Andy
July 6, 2018 at 12:55 pm
If you did show up with cameras no doubt they would be stolen
Eric Jackson
July 6, 2018 at 1:14 pm
That doesn’t say much about the people working at the tracks or kennels if you think they’re going to steal people’s equipment.
William C Grabow
June 25, 2018 at 11:38 pm
Kelly you obvious are brainwashed with the same old crap from Grey2k, the dont have the muscle tone from sitting in a cage all day, they are let out several times a day plus training, I bet they are more fit than you, and eat better. Time for you activist to think how stupid you sound and go see for yourself how fit these animals are, you cant be an athlete and sit in a crate for 20-23 hours, It is common sense which seems you dont have any
Cpatte
June 25, 2018 at 6:23 pm
Every track and kennel in Florida is welcoming to visitors to come and see the dogs for themselves. Spend a few hours during the day or evening at the closest track to you and see how the dogs are treated first hand, see them get ready for a race, and see how they are happy and healthy and “ready to run.”
More importantly, contact your nearest adoption group in Florida or across the country to see how you can adopt a greyhound – a dog that is well trained and full of love after his or her racing career ends!
Eric Jackson
June 29, 2018 at 2:41 pm
Where and when? What kennels are you offering us access to? You tell us where and when and we’ll be there with our cameras.
Mike
June 25, 2018 at 7:13 pm
They don’t want to go to the kennels and see the truth/ the fact is all the yes votes on 13 are hypocrites- they know nothing- no identity and refuse to see the truth- instead of yes on 13 how about yes on humane Society reform- they kill dogs on a weekly basis- instead of ruining and industry that finds homes for these racers/ all these animal lovers refuse to see this- get a life, vote no on13 and come be my guest at Naples in Dec and see the truth- I’m easy to find 6’7” and the evening track announcer- come be my guest and learn something- you’ll thank me later!
tabbatha couch
June 25, 2018 at 10:05 pm
Amen
Eric Jackson
June 29, 2018 at 2:42 pm
Mike, what kennels are you offering access to? When and where should we show up with our cameras?
Andy
July 2, 2018 at 8:37 pm
He just told you when and where, but show up you won’t
Eric Jackson
July 2, 2018 at 9:32 pm
Andy, do try to follow along, would you? He invited me to the Naples dog track – where he’s the announce. That’s not a kennel or farm. I’ve been to a track and I have no interest in going back. I have better things to do than sit with a couple of disinterested patrons while greyhounds are put at risk of serious injury or death.
Tabbatha Couch
July 3, 2018 at 12:13 am
Ummm this just shows your ignorance on greyhound racing. Where do you think the racing dogs are kept. In a shack around back or in the casino? 🤣
Eric Jackson
July 3, 2018 at 1:45 am
Gee, Tabbatha, where do you think the dogs are kept?
Maybe you should ask your pro-racing buddies where the kennel compounds are for most tracks. One thing you got right – the “shack” part.
tabbatha couch
July 3, 2018 at 3:35 am
I know where they are and do you think he would invite you to sit and just watch the races. Smh he invited you to go take a tour of the track facilities where the dogs are held before and after the race and then the kennels where they live. It’s you trying to spin the negative angle and once again refusing to open your mind to anything but what grey2k has brainwashed you with. I believed the hype and the lies and gave money to this horrible organization. Sad to say I donated to people who like to lie to get money out of peoples pockets. How much are they paying you to stay in their cult. Because that’s what it is. You got sucked in and can’t get out because you no longer can think for yourself.
Andy
July 4, 2018 at 8:13 am
I work in a kennel at Ebro and invite you to come, aconnorrs16 at gmail. Put up or shut up. That goes for you and your criminal cohorts, I hear the crickets already…
Eric Jackson
July 4, 2018 at 12:09 pm
And what do you do at that kennel, Andy? Do you have the authority to admit someone to the kennel compound?
Andy
July 4, 2018 at 12:26 pm
Yes, I do have the authority
Eric Jackson
July 4, 2018 at 12:28 pm
And what authority do you have? Are you a kennel hand? A trainer? A kennel manager? Or do you work for the track? Are you a lead-out? Do you run the tractor?
Andy
July 4, 2018 at 6:44 pm
I do a bit of everything, have been there for years, by the way the announcer can get you into the kennels at Naples too. But you won’t show up at either track. Sanford and Derby Lane are giving tours of the kennels every weekend. All you do is make up excuses for not going. One thing I don’t do is scam people. Care to comment on grey2k already losing a defamation lawsuit? Or how about blackmailing a WVA gubernatorial candidate? No, of course not. No doubt you voted for Hillary too. TRUMP2020
Eric Jackson
July 4, 2018 at 7:03 pm
So you really don’t have any authority. You’re a glorified gofer. Have your boss send authorization.
GREY2K USA Worldwide won the only defamation lawsuit filed against us. As for blackmail, that’s a serious crime you’re making up. Stop lying, Andy. Your fabricated claims are defamatory.
Andy
July 4, 2018 at 10:07 pm
But I do have authority, I’m part of the family that owns it moron. As for defamatory statements, that’s your stock in trade, anyone can search online and find the blackmail scheme your scam group tried on a a WVa gubernatorial candidate in 2012. You lie, just like you lie about grey2k not being affiliated with ALF. Get your safe room ready to cry in for when you lose scammer, like you did when Hillary lost
Eric Jackson
July 4, 2018 at 10:22 pm
Then ask your parents or uncle or aunt or whoever is really in charge to authorize access. So far all I know about you is your claim to be “Andy Connors” and that you have some familial association with a part of the Ebro track. So what does your family own?
Again, the rest of your statements are false and clearly intentionally defamatory. You need to stop posting lies, Andy.
Andy
July 4, 2018 at 10:36 pm
The king of liars accusing other people of lying. Your dear leader Dorkchak picture is/ was on the ALF website, she spoke at the convention before. The blackmail is true, the losing a defamation lawsuit is true, now you are going to say Dorkchak didn’t lie in the solicitation video about her ‘ accident’ but in court she had ‘ no memory’ the lies are coming home to roost my scammer friend. I guess the Boston Herald editorial detailing your slander is a lie too. As for visiting a kennel, you have been invited twice now and all you do is make excuses,
Eric Jackson
July 4, 2018 at 11:03 pm
More and more lies. You having authority to bring an outsider into the kennels – lie. The ALF connection – lie. Your blackmail claim – lie. The defamation loss – lie. Your fantasy about Christine Dorchak’s accident – lie. The story about slander – new lie.
As for visiting a kennel – you claimed to have authority, but you lack specifics. You said “Ebro” but what kennel? Or do you claim your family own’s the track? This is what I usually see from you pro-racing people – you put lies out there about what you can do and then when you get pushed for details, you clam up. Later you have your fellow pro-racers lie about what was offered, conveniently leaving out the fact that there was no real offer.
Stop lying, Andy.
tabbatha a couch
July 5, 2018 at 2:49 am
Talking about repeating themselves. Is liars and lying the only words in your vocabulary?Truth is you probably don’t make enough money to travel from your day job and we all know that grey2k isn’t sharing their $400,000 to $500,000 a year salary.
Eric Jackson
July 5, 2018 at 12:32 pm
Tabbatha, that has to be one of the most ridiculous lies I’ve seen from you. Another number pulled out of thin air. Just like the adoption numbers you folks keep spouting. First it was 90%, then it was 95%, and the latest was 98% adoption. Completely fabricated. And now this salary number from the same source.
I have a lot of words I could use, but lies, liar, and lying are the most applicable when dealing with you and Andy.
Andy
July 5, 2018 at 5:23 pm
Ronnie Williams served time in prison just like he deserved and is banned for LIFE. As for my lies that are the truth, notice he doesn’t mention dorkchaks picture on the TERRORISTS website, he doesnt mention Federal authorities linking grey2scum to blackmail scheme, he doesn’t mention the Boston Herald editorial detailing the fraud in Massachusetts, he doesn’t mention his partner in crime Kate McFail lying in front of the CRC concerning WW FLICKA, he doesnt mention the non canine dna drug test of that the former head of the agency IN CHARGE of the drug tests is now a lawyer for grey2fraud, one TONY GLOVER, and on and on and on
Eric Jackson
July 5, 2018 at 6:24 pm
No matter how many times you repeat the lies, they’re still lies, Andy.
Are you going to answer the question about your affiliation with Ebro? You claim your family owns…something…there. You claim to have authority to admit people to kennels, but you say you’re also kind of a gofer. So what is your connection, Andy?
Mark Abrams
June 25, 2018 at 7:54 pm
I am still waiting for factual proof that greyhounds are confined 20-23 hours a day. Can someone cite the source of this information? Or is it simply a baldfaced lie perpetrated by individuals who wish to deceive the general public to attain their desired end by deceit? The essence of all their propaganda is balderdash aimed to deceive voters and why it is constantly parroted verbatim.
Sonia Stratemann
June 25, 2018 at 9:11 pm
Mark, you can check out Protect Dogs – Yes on 13 FB page to see a video which contains just a few sources. The racing industry has been open about the confinement that the dogs endure. Now that the public is learning the truth, greyhound racers want to change their story.
Mark Abrams
June 25, 2018 at 9:41 pm
We see in the cease and desist order how you manipulate videos, your truthfulness is less than stellar. Are your sources dated from this century?
Sonia Stratemann
June 25, 2018 at 10:07 pm
Mark, you asked for sources and I showed you where to look. The sources are actually people involved with the greyhound industry. How can you say that I am not being truthful?
Andy
June 26, 2018 at 6:28 am
Ah, because you are a hypocrite
tabbatha couch
June 25, 2018 at 10:08 pm
Sonia is a huge hypocrite. Her and her husband are heavily involved in the polo world. She had a son die due to an accident during a match. Those horses are far more abused than a greyhound will ever be. She rants about accident and death reporting but there are none required in the polo world. I think she needs to be exposed.
robinw
June 26, 2018 at 10:25 am
It’s so sad that you need to resort to a personal tragedy instead of sticking to the issues. To me, it just looks like you need to play dirty because you have no way to justify your words about racing. I hope you never lose a family member to tragedy like Sonia did, and if you do, I hope nobody throws it in your face. You’ve made this about personal attacks, not racing.
William C Grabow
June 25, 2018 at 11:41 pm
Sorry Sonia, your page doenst show facts, just lies and you have been proven to be a liar and hypocrite. what about the polo horses you support, they are forced to run and get injuries, the public is learning the truth with the tours that the tracks are giving, they see first hand that they have been lied to by you and Greed2k, HSUS
tabbatha couch
June 26, 2018 at 2:48 am
Seems like the comment I made about the same thing wasn’t approved. I’ve called her out about the same. She is only in it for the money. How could u watch a horse be whipped, hit with mallets, and smashed into other horses and think it’s ok just because it’s a rich persons sport, but then stand and try to do away with greyhound racing when the dogs aren’t made to run, like horses are by being kicked in the ribs and hit with a whip.
Sonia Stratemann
June 26, 2018 at 6:45 am
Bill, nobody has proven any such thing. Greyhound racing people like you and Tabbath have to resort to ridiculous lies about me, my family and my friends. While I focus on helping greyhounds, you can keep making up funny stories. Are either of you even Florida residents? Have a great day, folks. I have work to do.
tabbatha couch
June 26, 2018 at 4:39 pm
No Sonia I’m not a resident. I was born there, but yes I know that doesn’t help in your eyes. While I am out here trying to help my greyhound friends as well, by pointing out that the person in charge of this media campaign against greyhound racing, being you, uses facts and truths and spins them in the ugliest way possible to suit your cause. So I’m here to do the same. How can you honestly lead us to believe that you have strictly nothing but the welfare of the greyhounds in mind. Let’s see. How about you post the salary you are making off of this media campaign right here. Better yet why don’t you do it for $0.00. Maybe then people would believe that you are in it for the greyhounds. Because I don’t believe you. I believe that you are pissed because you stepped on too many toes while working with the kennels and they refused to work with you. Now you are just another paid pawn by Grey2k and the casinos. Oh boy, what are you going to do to make money once you can’t profit off the greyhounds anymore and grey2k doesn’t have any more dog kennels to harass. They’ll start coming after your beloved spoiled ponies. Think about it..
Sonia Stratemann
June 26, 2018 at 9:29 pm
Tabbatha, I have a non profit rescue, sweetie. Of course I have the greyhounds welfare as a priority. Gosh, I wish that I could give you my salary but I do not have one. I am a stay at home mother and run a greyhound rescue. You said that people would believe me if I was speaking out for $0.00. Well, guess what? I am 🙂 Honestly, that info is easy enough for you to confirm as it would be public record. You just want to spew lies, and thats ok. My concern is not the hatred, or lies that you spread. My concern is for the dogs well being. I have been rescuing greyhounds off of Florida tracks for many years. I obviously have proof to back my claims and I will continue to speak loudly for the dogs. This post is about the confinement that racing greyhounds endure. I’ve witnessed it and it has also been confirmed by people within the industry.
William C Grabow
June 27, 2018 at 5:32 pm
yes go feed your farm animals because you cant get greyhounds anymore, you fit right in with barn animals, they are not lies when it is on video, you got paid for taking in greyhounds, and when the money stopped you started bad mouthing the racing industry and joined greed2k another money ho,
Eric Jackson
June 29, 2018 at 2:43 pm
Mark, the industry insiders have told you those are the times they keep the dogs locked up. There are videos and other primary sources direct from the industry that confirm it.
Mary Stewart
June 25, 2018 at 8:45 pm
Plenty of us fighting for Amendment 13 have been involved in greyhound rescue for a very long time. Hence the reason we are fighting. We have been inside the kennels and seen for ourselves how abysmal it is. What is the most appalling of all are the humans who see no issue with the confinement. Greyhounds may be very lazy but there’s a huge difference between sprawling out on a sofa or a bed versus lying in a cage with shredded newspaper and nasty carpet remnants. If you can’t understand the difference you are the problem. And you are also in the minority. Most Floridians already know this is no way to treat dogs. And they will vote YES on Amendment 13.
tabbatha couch
June 25, 2018 at 10:10 pm
Sonia is a huge hypocrite. Her and her husband are heavily involved in the polo world. She had a son die due to an accident during a match. Those horses are far more abused than a greyhound will ever be. She rants about accident and death reporting but there are none required in the polo world. I think she needs to be exposed.
tabbatha couch
June 25, 2018 at 10:17 pm
Someone needs to expose Sonia as the huge hypocrite she is. Her and her husband are heavily involved in the polo world. She had a son die due to an accident during a match. Those horses are far more abused than a greyhound will ever be. She rants about accident and death reporting but there are none required in the polo world. I think she needs to be put in the spotlight for all her lies all in order to make money off of the thing she is supposed to be doing , supposedly protecting greyhounds.
wanda
June 26, 2018 at 4:31 pm
Tabitha, you nailed it. I went over to take a peak at her page. she is using her own tragedy with a logo over her sons photo to seek pity and monetary donations. The professional racing greyhounds in the USA are the BEST KEPT Canine in the USA. I was totally disappointed in her stance years ago.
Andy
June 27, 2018 at 9:12 am
Where is the evidence, what kennels, what track, when? More of the same bs claims with ZERO evidence. If you want evidence the dogs are happy, simply visit a kennel or go to greyhoundchronicles
robinw
June 27, 2018 at 10:47 am
What makes you so sure that we haven’t visited any kennels or farms. Maybe we have. Maybe that’s we we’re so AR. I have and my visits pushed me from being slightly AR to rabidly AR, so that argument doesn’t hold water.
Jennifer Newcome
June 25, 2018 at 9:20 pm
Seems that Floridians are becoming more and more curious, and looking for the truth themselves. Which is exactly what we are asking people to do. The dogs don’t lie. They are not paid actors. They are simply happy, healthy animals who are well cared for and using their God given talents. 50 Floridians were welcomed behind the scenes this past weekend. Why would that be if there is something to hide? The cherry on top was at the end, when some of the visitors were so emotional about having been mislead, that they tore their “Vote Yes” pieces to shreds, threw them in the trash, and put #VoteNoOn13 decals onto their cars. You see, while those who oppose Amendment 13 have set out to show people the first hand truth, the best that the proponents can do is to steal and alter someone elses footage in an ultimately disingenuous fashion. Congratulations for showing everyone that the “Yes on 13” people have set out to intentionally deceive the voters of Florida, and will sink to no low to continue their path of dishonesty and deceit. The people of Florida aren’t buying what you’re selling. #VoteNoOn13 #Unlucky13
tabbatha couch
June 25, 2018 at 10:09 pm
Sonia is a huge hypocrite. Her and her husband are heavily involved in the polo world. She had a son die due to an accident during a match. Those horses are far more abused than a greyhound will ever be. She rants about accident and death reporting but there are none required in the polo world. I think she needs to be exposed.
Marina
June 26, 2018 at 6:55 pm
tabbatha couch, you are an incredibly smart woman! It is very obvious that Sonia is lying about greyhounds because her son died playing polo, it is very clear and bright point of view. Now, please, explain to me (I am not that bright) how the kennels are connected to Sonia’s son death. Although try a little bit harder and answer a couple questions:
1. Have you ever seen with your own eyes how these horses are whipped? I guess no. I have not seen it once. Yes, riders have a whip in their hand, and yes, they use it – they touch their horses with it, not beat. Although, if you didn’t notice, horses are big animals, and if a horse is scared it can do stupid stuff. For example, run into the crowd. And yes, the rider is obligated to stop it with or without whip (spoiler: it is easier to do with the whip). I have never been (and hope never will be) in a car accident, but every time I sit in a car I put my seat belt on – just for security.
Now, let’s talk about greyhounds and how wonderful they feel to live in a crate.
2. This is for their security. Didn’t it come to somebody’s mind that if you can not control that amount of dogs you don’t need that many? I think we should start to crate kids into schools and daycares for their own security. Anyway they spend a lot of time at home in their room, so what the difference. Just let them go out time to time. As a teacher in the past, I think this is a brilliant idea.
3. What happens to the dogs, which can not run anymore? How long are they able to run? 5 years or less? What do you do with them after? Put them down, donate them to a shelter?
Tabbatha Couch
June 27, 2018 at 6:34 am
They get adopted out or did u miss the statistics on adoption rate. 98% I have 2 myself plus 3 little ones. So do you also think as teacher that you should swat the kids with a whip if they get a little out of hand?
Maryna
June 27, 2018 at 11:17 pm
Tabbatha Couch,
Let me translate this to “normal English”:
They get adopted out which means that as soon as they stop bringing you money you do not care what happens to them and everyone can come and take a dog and do whatever he wants with it. That what nice word “adoption” really means.
About your question “So do you also think as teacher that you should swat the kids with a whip if they get a little out of hand?” – If this kid is going to harm a bunch of other kids, then definitely YES. As a teacher I am responsible for EACH kid in my class, so if I see a kid with a knife (for example) trying to harm another kid and I have a whip (lets imagine I do), I will not think twice, believe me.
Maryna
June 27, 2018 at 11:28 pm
Tabbatha Couch,
If I understood correct, you are fine with keeping kids in crates, you just do not like swatting them with a whip. I can assure you, as soon as every kid has their own crate, swatting wouldn’t be necessary. They are nice and safe inside.
Lori Bruce
June 28, 2018 at 3:21 pm
Maryna, greyhound adoption is certainly more than “everyone can come get a dog and do whatever they want with it”. When I adopted, I had to fill out an application, provide references, have someone from the adoption group perform a home visit, and attend an adoption session to learn about caring for a retired greyhound. The group I went through takes great care not just in finding a home for every retired hound but in finding the RIGHT home for each one.
tabbatha couch
June 28, 2018 at 3:53 pm
For your information both of my greys were adopted. One from southland when she was no longer able to run. Just met her wonderful owner/trainer. He remembered her just from her name and said she was a sweet baby. The other we got straight from the farm because she never grew big enough. There were at least 15 people in line wanting her because she was so young and small. These dogs are rarely put down anymore and usually it’s due to temperament or severe injury. Which happens in percentages far less in this industry than does in family homes. How many dogs are abandoned, given to shelters, shot, abused or run over by regular every day people? These dogs are loved by their trainers/handlers and then adopted into houses that truly want these beautiful dogs.
robinw
June 28, 2018 at 5:32 pm
Please tell us what any of this has to do with the death of Sonia’s son. Better yet, please tell is what connection it would have to a nice, normal, person who wouldn’t stoop to flinging a tragic event at somebody just to attempt to prove a point, which you haven’t been able to do.
Maryna
June 28, 2018 at 6:39 pm
tabbatha couch,
You answered my questions even before I asked it:
1. “There were at least 15 people in line wanting her because she was so young and small.” That is the point. If I want a specific dogs breed, I will take this dog as a puppy (which I did with my dalmatian) and raise it in MY family how I like, and I will be responsible for this animal’s life till it’s dead. If you have a dog and something changes in your family and you have to give your animal up for adoption, that is not good, but yes, shit happens. But if you do it continuously, years and year in a row, and hope other people take care of your dogs, which you do not want anymore, you are a horrible, heartless person. And please, do not start with all this shit about saving the breed. All you want to save is your money and you do not care about any dog’s breed. If tomorrow you can make more money on shepherd fights, I am more than sure, you’ll start to “save” shepherds.
2. “These dogs are rarely put down anymore and usually it’s due to temperament or severe injury”. I can agree with you on the severe injury, this can happen to any dog no matter how loved or unloved it is. Let’s stop on “put down … due to temperament”. If a dog never lived in a family, never communicated with people or kids in the right way, it is very obvious that this dog will try to find its place in a new environment like all animals do, which means fighting, growling, biting and attacking. Now, answer me, who’s fault is it? Is it the dog’s fault, because it doesn’t know to act any better? Or is it the original owner’s, who didn’t bother to socialize this dog, fault? I think the answer is very clear.
Lori Bruce,
If you really wanted greyhound, why didn’t you take a puppy? Then all this adoption groups would not exist, and I think this is the way it should be, if only everyone was responsible of all their own animals. Otherwise, it sounds like “women should give a birth to as much kids as possible, to save the kids, so people who do not have a child can adopt whatever they want – black, white, asian, etc.”. You know, I hope that someday every kid will have at least one parent, who would love them and take care of their needs. And the happiest day will be, when there are no kids left for adoption. Same with dogs.
Lori Bruce
June 28, 2018 at 7:27 pm
Maryna, I didn’t want a puppy. I wanted an adult dog. I believe the hounds are well cared for at the track and there are lots of people wanting to give them homes when they retire. I think that’s great. You don’t. We will just have to agree to disagree on that point. I just wanted to point out that adopting a greyhound wasn’t as simple as “everybody come and get one and do whatever you want with it”.
Angela Wade
June 25, 2018 at 10:22 pm
My sighthounds choose to sleep/rest 18-20 hours a day. Often on a piece of thin carpet. Any time they run, they love it and they are risking injury whether at a dog park or chasing a bunny in my back yard.
These greyhounds have pretty good lives while on the track and after. Save the greyhounds, and vote this thing down!
tabbatha couch
June 25, 2018 at 11:51 pm
Someone needs to expose Sonia as the huge hypocrite she is. Her and her husband are heavily involved in the polo world. She had a son die due to an accident during a match. Those horses are far more abused than a greyhound will ever be. She rants about accident and death reporting but there are none required in the polo world. I think she needs to be put in the spotlight for all her lies all in order to make A buck.
Eric Jackson
June 29, 2018 at 2:46 pm
You keep copying and pasting the same thing and is completely irrelevant to greyhound racing. You’re stooping so low to try to make a family tragedy part of your excuse for abusing greyhounds.
Melissa McLelland
June 26, 2018 at 10:41 am
Now let’s see…Jeff Sonksen takes photographs from the internet (and does not credit their creators), changes them in Photoshop and traces them onto board and paints by numbers. He also puts messages on said boards that he uses for political propaganda. Half of the Greyhounds he has painted are rescued dogs. And let’s not forget how many times he has deliberately bullied and harassed anti-racing advocates at their peaceful protests. They aren’t looking for a handout – they just care about what the Greyhounds have to go through during their racing lives. And for the record, I have been to kennels and tracks here in Australia. And I have worked for a vet. And I have rescued Greyhounds. And being called a moron by Jeff on his FB page when I made an incredibly polite comment regarding my knowledge was an honour. While many pro-racers on here are pointing out a certain wrong to cover an existing wrong, it does not make it disappear. Greyhound racing belongs in the history books. I wish all the “Yes on 13” people the best with getting the truth out there. We managed to ban Greyhound racing here in the Australian Capital Territory. It’s time Florida did the same.
Dick Ciampa
June 26, 2018 at 1:17 pm
Most know that Grey2K is one of the driving forces behind trying to get greyhound racing banned. However, I wonder how many people realize G2k was also the driving force in 2013 to get the minimum crate size made SMALLER and not larger in Florida? They supported and helped pass the Florida Division of Pari-mutuel Wagering a division of the Department of Business and Regulation regulation to make the minimum crate size 24″W x 36″L x 32″H.
The minimum size crate used in a greyhound racing kennel is 34″W x 42″L x 32″H. No Florida greyhound racing kennel went to smaller minimum crates because it shows just how little G2K knows about greyhounds.
At Petco or Pet Smart their crate size for a 70 to 90 pound dog is 28″W x 42″L X 30″H
The Grey2K recommended crate size is 18.66 cubic feet
The pet store recommended crate size is 20.41 cubic feet
The greyhound racing kennel crates are 26.44 cubic feet.
Anyone who wants to believe Grey2K knows anything about the care of the racing greyhound probably needs to think twice about what they have been told, not just about the crates, but about everything that has to do about greyhound racing.
Don’t be fooled, Vote NO on Question 13.
Fred Barton
June 26, 2018 at 2:00 pm
That’s not quite accurate there Dickie boy. For years Grey2K tried to get Florida to recognize that the welfare of greyhounds was a part of their mission. We tried to get the Department of Business and Professional Regulation, Division of Pari-Mutuel Wagering to add injury reporting to their reporting rules, but they continued to drag their feet until they finally came out with a death reporting rule in May of 2013. We never asked for, nor supported a cage size rule at all. They simply formalized the current cage size into a rule. The industry did not resist the rule, but chose to keep fighting our injury reporting requirement instead.
Mark Abrams
June 26, 2018 at 3:21 pm
the grey2k credo…..“A lie’s true power cannot be accurately measured by the number of people who believe its deception when it is told, it must be measured by the number of people who will go out after hearing it trying to convince others of its truth.”
― Dennis Sharpe
Andy
June 26, 2018 at 4:22 pm
But hey, you did get the DBPR to tamper with a urine sample, feloniously of course. And the head of DBPR then is now. surprise, a lawyer for grey2scam.
Fred Barton
June 26, 2018 at 4:03 pm
Nice quote. Here’s another that Carey Theil made during the proceedings:
“This rule is not perfect. For example, we believe the system of confined housing that is used by the Florida greyhound racing industry is cruel and inhumane. Proposed rule 61D-2.023 codifies these poor standards.”
Andy
June 26, 2018 at 4:19 pm
Of course Fat Fraudster Freddie has to add his 2 cents worth, notice how he doesnt mention grey2scam opposed the greyhound safety act. Nor does he comment on the theft of copyright material. They will be lucky to get 50%, much less 60, once voters realize what sleazy lying scammers they are.
Fred Barton
June 26, 2018 at 4:42 pm
Andy! Haven’t heard from you in a while. Still got that body fetish thing going on I see. Anyway, I asked you this once before and you never replied. Do you really think the voters of Florida are going to make up their minds based on your opinion of us, or are they going to look at the facts, like representatives of the industry itself talking about how the dogs are mistreated?
Andy
July 2, 2018 at 9:38 am
Hey, Freddie, are you still so fat that women are repulsed when they see you waddling down the sidewalk? And I see the judge slapped your crooked groups motion down, that’s just GREYT
Fred Barton
July 2, 2018 at 11:02 am
It was sort of expected, but they did say we could file an amicus curie brief, so we get our two cents in anyway. Different path, same result.
Andy
July 2, 2018 at 4:59 pm
Wrong, not the same result because if you lose, the STATE has to file an appeal, greed2scam and your larcenous cohorts can not
Fred Barton
July 2, 2018 at 5:12 pm
But we can file an appeal if the state chooses not to decision Read the whole decision Andy boy.
Fred Barton
June 26, 2018 at 4:47 pm
“A urine sample”? One. Come on Andy. From First Coast News:
In the scope of a year, the state numbers for racing dogs testing positive for prohibited drugs in Florida have quadrupled. The most recent released statistic by the Department of Business and Professional Regulation show the number of greyhounds testing positive jumped from 18 in 2015-2016 to 81 in 2016-2017.
Quadrupled Andy. That means four times more. And you’re hanging your hat on one sample? Really? That’s what you want to go with?
Joe T
June 27, 2018 at 5:39 pm
Maybe if you covered the cost for more test from an out of state independent lab they all would come back non-canine, put your money where your fat mouth is Fred, We all know it looks like you are crated 23 hours a day with no exercise
Fred Barton
June 28, 2018 at 7:53 am
Maybe if Napoleon had B-52s at the battle of Waterloo we’d all be speaking French right now.
Andy
July 2, 2018 at 5:01 pm
If you would exercise women might not wouldn’t be repulsed at the sight of you.
robinw
July 2, 2018 at 5:06 pm
You’re obviously really desperate to come up with something of substance to write or else you wouldn’t be throwing stupid insults around. What does your comment have to do with racing?
Andy
June 26, 2018 at 4:56 pm
No doubt if more were independently tested, it would be much the same? ” Only one sample” , tell me Fattie, how many felonies does it take before it counts then. Oh, and why did the court see fit to throw it out? Like the court is liable to do win your sham amendment built on lies Freddie. Care to comment on how grey2scam admitted to fraudulent advertising in Mass? Of course not
robinw
June 26, 2018 at 6:20 pm
Who is Fattie? So much for sticking to the topic.
Andy
June 26, 2018 at 5:00 pm
Also, DBPR is in bed with you, so more fake news. Care to comment on your lawyer who was head of DBPR when these tampered samples were taken? Of course not, this isnt Mass, we are going to take you down. You know, like Trump did your hero Crooked Hillary.
Fred Barton
June 26, 2018 at 5:12 pm
Speaking of Grey2kscam, I had this talk with Steve a while back. John Parker, Dennis McKeon and the FGA all wrote about the strategy the industry should adopt to forward your position. Their advice was to stick to the issues and keep it positive, because, you see Andy, nobody cares what your opinion of us is, and the constant name calling is just going to turn voters off. Like Steve, I see you’ve chosen not to take that advice.
I’m going to stick to the issue of institutionalized cruelty in greyhound racing, because I can demonstrate that it is true, and I think it’s what will help Prop 13 pass. You do what you think is best.
Andy
June 26, 2018 at 5:30 pm
Still no comment on the admitted fraud, on the felony tampering, on the crooked lawyer. Same old game plan you used in Mass. Except this time the industry is fighting back. Visits to kennels are farms will win it for us if the court doesn’t throw it out. Wait and see. After all, we have TRUTH on our side, that your crooked side has to steal copywritten material speaks volumes. A debate would be a great idea, but of course your side would refuse.
Fred Barton
June 26, 2018 at 5:41 pm
Carey had debated Jack Corey at least a couple of times that I’m aware of and I’m sure as the election draws closer there will be more formal and informal. debates. Heck we could even have one here if you guys could stick to an issue.
As for the kennels, you miss the point. Whether a dog is in a clean brightly lit kennel, or a dark dirty one that dog is still being exploited. It’s still being put in harm’s way for profit on a regular basis, and it is still abandoned by the industry when it is no longer profitable. That’s what people who support Prop 13 want to end.
Andy
June 27, 2018 at 5:27 am
He has never debated anyone, i mean a live debate an radio or tv. One station did one recently where Lying Carlos bailed and MR Steal got slammed, started crying like the coward he is and then most likely paid the station to not run it. As for a debate here, it isn’t us who can’t stick to an issue, it is you who never mentions RELEVANT subjects such as, the lying Dorchak train ” accident”, the fact that your fraudulent organization admitted fraud in the past and lost a defamation lawsuit, attempted to blackmail a gubernatorial candidate in W Va in 2012, felony tampering of a urine sample by your crooked now lawyer, that you have to steal copywritten material. And that’s just for a start. The evidence of your group’s dishonesty gets ever longer. You simply lie for donations, on every page is a donate button. You and your cohorts are a fraud, simple as that. Care to comment on the Ohio congressman who said y2k is more believable than grey2k? Of course not, like everything else.
robinw
June 26, 2018 at 6:28 pm
But no adoption group? All they care about is their name as remaining a “relevant” entity. Everybody knows that GPA Arizona wants to have dogs to adopt out and is in no way concerned with greyhound welfare.
Tabbatha Couch
June 30, 2018 at 10:35 pm
Don’t u love in Canada?
Tabbatha Couch
July 2, 2018 at 9:18 pm
That was supposed to say lived and it was towards Robin Waldman
Jerry W
June 29, 2018 at 4:47 pm
I’m in Colorado and am pretty well versed in greyhound racing. I worked in a kennel while in college, was the announcer at Mile High for 7 years and work at an OTB today. I never saw a greyhound fatally injured in all the years I announced and I know first hand how well they are treated by their owners. I also adopted a greyhound while working at Mile High. I’m all for animal rights, but they are attacking the wrong people when it comes to greyhound racing. I have no respect for any of them because they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about, There are animals out there that are truly being abused and instead you attack an industry which provides animals more love than you could ever imagine and treats them better than most people treat their pets. I pray the people in Florida are smart enough to see through this.
Eric Jackson
June 30, 2018 at 4:27 pm
So your anecdotal experience outweighs industry and state records? The deaths of greyhounds, averaging one death every three days at a Florida track, are documented in track and state records.
Jerry W
June 30, 2018 at 6:07 pm
That’s exactly my point. I am not an expert by any means, but I am smart enough to observe what is in front of me and it is not cruelty to animals. Since you state there is a greyhound dying every three days at Florida tracks, why don’t you provide us the racing names of the 10 greyhounds that died in June and what track they were racing at. There is a better chance that I will be hit by a drunk driver on the way to work tonight than that a greyhound will die racing.
Eric Jackson
June 30, 2018 at 6:37 pm
The information you have requested is available through public information requests and those take time. There are several sources, though, that have compiled lists for previous years. Those are the statistics that have already been presented. If you want more detail, I can point you to the sources.
Your sense of your driving danger is greatly exaggerated. If you were as likely to be hit by a drunk driver as greyhounds are to die on the track, you would never leave your house.
Tim
July 1, 2018 at 1:09 pm
You just aren’t very bright are you Eric…
“According to the National Highway Transportation and Safety Administration, an average of three in every ten Americans will be involved in an alcohol-related crash at some point in their lives.”
Quit your lyng, you are being exposed for what you are, lying thieves!
Eric Jackson
July 1, 2018 at 1:26 pm
How does that in any way relate to the fact that, on average, a greyhound dies on a Florida track every three days? You’re not even comparing apples and oranges anymore, you’re trying to compare apples and concrete for all the sense you’re making.
Tim
July 1, 2018 at 1:25 pm
OOP’s forgot to address you as EricNM, or Eric Jackson GREY@K Board MEMBER…………..NEW MEXICO
Almost forgot Freddy Barton GREY@K BOARD MEMBER…………MICHIGAN
Hey, did you know that your lawyer told a judge a few days ago, that you guys were the ones that pushed the CRC #13 onto the ballot in Florida? I thought that was Senator Tom Lee, Gaetz and AG Pam Bondi?!?! Were they pushing an agenda from an out of state organization to make a change to the Florida Constitution? Someone should ask them I guess huh?!? You are being exposed, and we are not going to stop! Deal with it, you are going to lose, and you know it, that’s why you are grasping at straws and stealing! Keep it up, we love you, you are helping in a big way, the more you talk the better we are! You have deceived and lied and cheated people for to long, and we have all had enough, you are alone!
Eric Jackson
July 1, 2018 at 1:28 pm
I’ve never hidden my name or my affiliation, “Tim.” As far as us being alone, 70% of Florida voters agree that greyhound racing needs to end and will Vote Yes on 13!
Tim
July 1, 2018 at 2:37 pm
LOL Eric, keep living in your dream world!
Tim
July 1, 2018 at 2:41 pm
So tell me Eric, how did you manipulate Senator Lee, Gaetz and Pam Bondi to push this through, as your lawyer stated to the judge? Can you please explain this to us all? We are curious. just stick to this question, no need to use your parroting skills, everyone has seen it. I know it’s tough, but just the task at hand, which is answering this one question.
Andy
July 5, 2018 at 1:32 am
Tell you what liar, I will be in Tallahassee for the court hearing on July 26, be there and you will get the credentials you say you require, but you won’t be there because you are a keyboard coward who is the real liar. Everything I have said is true, to anyone else reading this if you search online you will find it all. The train accident is a fraud, in the video Dorkchak gives explicit detail about the so called accident while soliciting donations. In court she states she has ‘ no memory’ . She surf the transportation authority and LOST. All the other facts I mention can be found as well, liar Eric says ALF is a lie, Google Christine Dorchak Animal Liberation Front and see her picture on their website. In another post he says they ‘ were told to take it down’ I have it. It is All true. These people are cowards and criminals, simple as that. I guess the pie chart from the IRS showing the 2 head crooks paying themselves over 100k a year while giving less than 1 percent to greyhounds is a lie too, right? Funny you don’t mention the Boston Herald editorial, or that you will show up at Sanford or Derby lane where they are having kennel tours every weekend. If a miracle happens and you show up in Tallahassee I will know it’s you because I can easily spot a keyboard coward.
Eric Jackson
July 5, 2018 at 2:30 am
Lies, lies, and more lies. That’s all you’ve put out there, Andy. The questions to you were simple and you can’t even give a straight answer. You’re so wrapped up in your own delusions you can’t even tell the truth about yourself.
You know who I am, Andy, because I haven’t hidden my identity or my affiliations. You have. So stop lying.
Andy
July 5, 2018 at 9:04 am
Notice he doesn’t say he will show up in Tallahassee, like the lady says he doesn’t make enough money to make the trip, could be fraud isn’t paying so good these days. I just googled ” Christine Dorchak Animal Liberation Front, and SURPRISE, there it is, the picture with the liar in chief on their website so much for it being a lie, it’s true, just like everything else I have said. Search enough and you will find it. Notice he fails to mention The Boston Herald article. Believe nothing these criminals say
Eric Jackson
July 5, 2018 at 12:29 pm
No, Andy, everything you have said is a bunch of…wait for it…lies! It’s getting a bit tiresome having to constantly repeat the same thing but you insist on repeating the same lies over and over.
As for Tallahassee, I’m not interested in going all that way just to meet you. Is your plan for us to drive over to Ebro from there? It sounds like you’re lying again about your authority. Establish that first and then we’ll set up a time and date.
Andy
July 5, 2018 at 5:07 pm
Yet again 4 eyed Eric who lives in mommy’s basement says it’s all lies, when right there is Dorkchaks picture on the ALF website, when right there is BLACKMAIL evidence, the worldwide leader in lies and fraud. Just like that Ohio congressman said ” Y2K is more believable than Grey2k. The curtain is coming down on them, major announcement of support coming that will be the death knell for their fraud of an amendment, but hey, look at the bright side 4 eyes, that you can still work your scam on dupes until hopefully one day you are all in prison
Andy
July 5, 2018 at 5:14 pm
In the Christian Science Monitor interview the 2 head fraudsters say ” please donate and give all you can, we can’t do it without you” Brings a tear to my eye, anyone who doubts they are con artists just go to the website where among all the distortions and flat out lies that EVERY PAGE HAS A DONATE BUTTON TO CLICK, I would send Charles Manson money before these frauds.
Eric Jackson
July 5, 2018 at 5:15 pm
Again with the personal insults, Andy. Your lies have all been addressed, repeatedly.
Are you going to answer the question about your position at Ebro? That’s where Ronnie Williams abandoned all of his dogs, isn’t it, Andy?
Andy
July 2, 2018 at 9:45 am
Hey, Freddie, are you still so fat that women are repulsed when they see you waddling down the sidewalk? And I see the judge slapped your crooked groups motion down, that’s just GREYT
Andy
July 2, 2018 at 9:46 am
There they are with the 70 percent lie again, never mind Chamber of Commerce has it 47-36, don’t let irritating things like facts stop the lies.
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