Drew Dixon
Supporters of the Florida Constitutional Amendment 4 ballot initiative that will appear before voters in the November 5 election claim there are attempts to tamper with the referendum.
Florida Rising, which supports the amendment referendum that would limit government restrictions on abortion in Florida, say there is a “misinformation” attempt to distort the Financial Impact Estimating Conference (FIEC).
The FIEC meets in Tallahassee Monday to draft a third version of the financial impact statement for the proposed amendment placed on the ballot following a petition drive that garnered hundreds of thousands of signatures of registered voters in Florida. The state currently has a ban on the procedure after six weeks of pregnancy, with an exception for 15 weeks for pregnancies caused by rape, incest or if there is a threat to the mother’s life.
“On June 5, a circuit court found that the FIEC’s initial statement was unlawfully inaccurate, ambiguous, unclear, and confusing. Despite appealing this decision, arguing that no court can review such ballot statements, the state has reconvened the FIEC to revise the statement. During these meetings, political appointees and out-of-state actors are resisting the FIEC’s intended purpose of technical, neutral analysis,” a Florida Rising news release said.
The FIEC is supposed to take a nonpartisan approach to estimating financial ramifications of constitutional amendments in Florida. Gov. Ron DeSantis and many of his supporters have opposed the referendum arguing for a strict ban on procedures for women who become pregnant.
Ivanna Gonzales, director of campaigns at Florida Rising, said the FIEC is being warped by operatives in Tallahassee.
“The FIEC has been hijacked by political operatives and out-of-state anti-abortion advocates aiming to spread misinformation about Amendment 4, turning what should be a neutral administrative process into a political circus driven by extremism. The replacement of longtime professional economists with new appointees — Heritage Foundation Senior Research Fellow Rachel Greszler and political operative Chris Spencer — has led to speculative discussions that do not align with the FIEC’s purpose,” Gonzales said in a prepared statement.
Despite Republican opposition to the proposed constitutional amendment, the movement supporting the referendum has continued to garner more financial support. In June, the campaign supporting the ballot initiative had raised more the $12 million in two months.
In a related issue, Vice President Kamala Harris was supposed to moderate a panel discussion in Florida that was going to cover the topic of abortion. The news website Politico reported Sunday that Harris was postponing her visit to the event scheduled to take place Tuesday in Palm Beach County.
40 comments
Michael K
July 14, 2024 at 3:50 pm
The current governor opposes any type of citizen referendum, and will do all he can to undermine and thwart the will of the people.
He alone knows what’s best for women and everyone else.
Cheesy Floridian
July 14, 2024 at 9:10 pm
He sucks and he knows nothing
Not Woke
July 15, 2024 at 8:11 am
I wonder if Cheesy could get into Yale University? Would Cheesy be accepted into Harvard Law? How about would the USN take Cheesy as an officer? I bet that’s a big no on all three. So then who really sucks and knows nothing? I’ll go with Cheesy.
otoh
July 15, 2024 at 11:37 am
If cheesy plays Baseball and is socioeconomically Diverse he could.
If cheesy graduated from Yale it would be practically automatic.
If he went to Yale & Harvard (or anywhere else) they would take him. The Navy needs officers.
Cheesy Floridian
July 16, 2024 at 10:06 am
Cheesy is a woman 🙂
otoh
July 17, 2024 at 6:59 am
Ooooops! Sorry Cheesy! I was thinking about Not Woke’s Supreme Leader when I answered!
Cheesy Floridian
July 15, 2024 at 11:39 am
Doesn’t your Supreme Leader look down upon the schools he attended as he said where woke ideology is fostered? Seems pretty hypocritical to me that he wants to bash the schools he attended. he says he is against the “elite” and yet he was one of them. I already know I am a better person compared to him and to you. Hope you have a great day 😀
Paul Passarelli
July 17, 2024 at 9:50 am
@Cheesy,
Defend your assertions. Any of them, from the “… knows nothing” (good luck), to the you’re “a better person” (again, good luck).
Dont Say FLA
July 19, 2024 at 8:18 am
Could Cheesy get into Yale? If Cheesy is good at handling balls like Rhonda reportedly was (despite the team’s winloss record all years he was there), the answer is Yes
Hung Wiil
July 15, 2024 at 10:56 pm
Yeah, he’s just not as smart as you.
Ian
July 15, 2024 at 9:22 am
FROM THE ARTICLE:
“The state currently has a ban on the procedure after six weeks of pregnancy, with an exception for 15 weeks for pregnancies caused by rape, incest or if there is a threat to the mother’s life.”
REALITY:
Drew, you have a few problems with the above excerpt. First, the exception to save the pregnant woman’s life is not limited to 15 weeks into her pregnancy. Current law places no time limit on the use of that exception. Secondly, the exception itself is not limited to saving the woman’s life. It also applies if an abortion is needed to avert substantial and irreversible physical impairment off a major bodily function. So, the exception to save her life or protect her health applies beyond the 15-week point, with no specified time limit. Lastly, the article fails to mention the law’s other exceptions, i.e. the exception for victims of human trafficking (up to 15 weeks) and in cases of fatal fetal abnormality (up to 3rd trimester).
You’re welcome.
Cheesy Floridian
July 15, 2024 at 11:40 am
The exceptions you speak of are not granted normally. Women have to go to court and hope a judge approves her request and then hope that the state doesn’t appeal to a higher court that the approved request isn’t put on hold while another court decides if her life is in serious enough danger or her major bodily functions are not in serious enough danger for an abortion to be granted. Just look at the state of Texas.
Ian
July 15, 2024 at 4:31 pm
Cheesy,
The exceptions do not require court intervention. You must be thinking of judicial bypass when a minor petitions a court to set aside the parental notification or consent requirements. That’s a different matter altogether.
otoh
July 15, 2024 at 6:47 pm
See Cox v. Texas. The text of the law doesn’t require court intervention for exceptions. But actually getting the health or life saving abortion very often does. The states with bans are fighting women in the courts to deny them exceptions. It is exactly as Cheesy writes.
Ian
July 15, 2024 at 8:08 pm
No, it isn’t. We’re discussing Florida law, not Texas law. They are not the same.
otoh
July 15, 2024 at 3:04 pm
Exceptions are not real. They are designed to make politicians look reasonable or even compassionate. Doctors are too afraid to provide abortions until the woman or girl is very close to death. Even when a doctor knows that their patient will die without an abortion they are forced to stand by her bedside waiting until it’s so obvious that even some unqualified politician or government official will (hopefully) agree. Imagine going to the hospital ER with a broken leg, a ruptured appendix, or a beam in your eye (get it?), and being told to wait in the car until you’re a little more dead!
otoh
July 18, 2024 at 9:56 am
The fatal fetal anomaly exception expires at the end of the second trimester. Just when many fatal anomolies become apparent! What’s with the cruelty of forcing a woman to carry a baby who will slowly suffocate or die painfully from waste buildup due to having no kidneys? Or is there supposed to be some benefit to big sister seeing her headless baby brother?
otoh
July 18, 2024 at 9:59 am
*abnormality
ScienceBLVR
July 15, 2024 at 2:19 pm
And let’s not forget, 70% of FL legislature are of the male gender- this would never be a decision they face or know didley squat about.. and the 30% female? Close to half of them are not even in their child bearing years. So, in the “FREE” state of Florida this uninvolved misinformed bunch of miscreants get to make this personal private decision for millions of women?
Hung Wiil
July 15, 2024 at 10:58 pm
Stoopid argument, tool.
rick whitaker
July 18, 2024 at 4:16 pm
hung wiil, are you the uninvolved misinformed miscreants that hates freedom that scienceblvr is referring to? if not, you’ll do fine. how does it feel to hate women and freedom?
Ian
July 15, 2024 at 4:39 pm
otoh,
You can believe all that if you want. I was merely trying to help the reporter get his facts straight. He reported on the existence of exceptions but made omissions and a factual error, which I corrected.
otoh
July 15, 2024 at 7:19 pm
You corrected the factual error regarding the life exception. The problem is that the law does not state how close to dead the girl or woman must be to qualify for a life saving abortion. It does not mean that the woman has a condition that will kill her if she remains pregnant. It means that she must be dying from the pregnancy right now. But the ban doesn’t specify how close to dead she must be to receive the abortion. Loss of how many pints of blood, how high blood pressure, how long in ICU on a ventilator… Will an unqualified legislator or prosecutor agree with the doctor’s decision to provide the life saving abortion? Doctors fear prosecution so the written exceptions are meaningless.The legislators and governors know this. It’s by design.
Ian
July 17, 2024 at 11:45 am
OTOH WROTE:
“You corrected the factual error regarding the life exception.”
REALITY:
That’s not all I did. I also pointed out material facts the reporter omitted.
OTOH WROTE:
“The problem is that the law does not state how close to dead the girl or woman must be to qualify for a life saving abortion. It does not mean that the woman has a condition that will kill her if she remains pregnant. It means that she must be dying from the pregnancy right now. But the ban doesn’t specify how close to dead she must be to receive the abortion. Loss of how many pints of blood, how high blood pressure, how long in ICU on a ventilator…”
REALITY:
You seem to have not read Florida’s law. You’re asking questions that have no bearing on the situation you’re discussing. See section 390.0111(1), Florida Statutes. It provides that the exception for the woman’s life or health applies if two physicians certify in writing that, in reasonable medical judgment, the termination of the pregnancy is necessary, or, in case of an emergency, one physician certifies there is a medical necessity for an emergency abortion and no other physician is available. That’s the law. If such certification exists, the law has been satisfied and the abortion is legal.
OTOH WROTE:
“Will an unqualified legislator or prosecutor agree with the doctor’s decision to provide the life saving abortion?”
REALITY:
Irrelevant. Read the law.
otoh
July 18, 2024 at 10:59 am
You are very wrong. Reread Cheesy’s comments. Reread mine. That’s reality. Your attempt to mislead readers is obvious—and pathetic.
You:
See section 390.0111(1), Florida Statutes. It provides that the exception for the woman’s life or health applies if two physicians certify in writing that, in reasonable medical judgment, the termination of the pregnancy is necessary, or, in case of an emergency, one physician certifies there is a medical necessity for an emergency abortion and no other physician is available. That’s the law. If such certification exists, the law has been satisfied and the abortion is legal.
LOL. The prosecutor will decide what is legal. Smug, self righteous politicians will dictate the punishments. Women’s medical records will be reviewed by the government and religious fanatics like the disgraced Andrew Shirvell. Obgyns will be second guessed by government “experts”——men as wise and qualified as Ladapo, I’m sure. Doctors are already required to submit detailed reports of all abortions provided.
Irrelevant you say! Two signatures you say! You really underestimate voters’ intelligence!
Providing a life-saving abortion is far from being as simple as two doctors agreeing that a fetus is killing a woman.
[In Florida] “This requires physicians willing to risk possible fines, loss of license and even imprisonment by going on record against oversight committees and the state. Attempts by Democrats to clarify the conditions under which a physician may make that call without risking their medical license were struck down.” ——Tallahassee Democrat
Reality, As a result of extreme abortion bans: “Doctors and hospitals are turning away patients…the threat of criminal penalties make them unwilling to test the rules—-NYT
Doctors are watching as their patients get closer and closer to death. “How imminent must death be?”—-obgyn Lisa Harris, MD
[Doctors must] “watch somebody get sicker and sicker and sicker until some point – and where is that point? – where it’s OK to intervene and we won’t be exposed to criminal liability,” King, Vice Chair, ACOG Committee on Ethics.
Another unacceptable risk to women is the time required for a second doctor to examine the patient and review the entire pregnancy record and history. How much time will this add? In an emergency! Women and girls are already being forced to wait around dying while doctors and lawyers debate in the corner.
And according to the law, what happens when the only other doctor on duty has a religious “prolife” agenda and would rather see a ten year old child dead than provide an abortion to save her life?
What does Florida’s law say about conditions like cancer where death is usually not imminent? A radiologist will not treat a pregnant woman, so a six week abortion ban becomes a nine month treatment delay, allowing the cancer to spread. But too bad…no exception. Irrelevant, right? There are Florida women in this situation right now. Does the law tell you just how much women and girls are supposed to suffer for someone else’s religion? Or is that irrelevant too?
Your “irrelevant” comments demonstrate exactly why voting YES on Amendment 4 is so important for Florida women and families. Abortion is NOT controversial in the United States. And over 80% of Americans oppose government interference in abortion. Americans want FREEDOM from government intrusion into our personal lives.
Vote YES on 4 !
otoh
July 18, 2024 at 2:21 pm
You are very wrong. And I have read the law. Reread Cheesy’s comments. Reread mine. That’s reality. Your attempt to mislead readers is obvious—and pathetic.
You:
See section 390.0111(1), Florida Statutes. It provides that the exception for the woman’s life or health applies if two physicians certify in writing that, in reasonable medical judgment, the termination of the pregnancy is necessary, or, in case of an emergency, one physician certifies there is a medical necessity for an emergency abortion and no other physician is available. That’s the law. If such certification exists, the law has been satisfied and the abortion is legal.
LOL. The prosecutor will decide what is legal. Smug, self righteous politicians will dictate the punishments. Women’s medical records will be reviewed by the government and religious fanatics like the disgraced Andrew Shirvell. Obgyns will be second guessed by government “experts”——men as wise and qualified as Ladapo, I’m sure. Doctors are already required to submit detailed reports of all abortions provided.
Irrelevant you say! Two signatures you say! You really underestimate voters’ intelligence!
Providing a life-saving abortion is far pfrom being as simple as two doctors agreeing that a fetus is killing a woman.
[In Florida] “This requires physicians willing to risk possible fines, loss of license and even imprisonment by going on record against oversight committees and the state. Attempts by Democrats to clarify the conditions under which a physician may make that call without risking their medical license were struck down.” ——Tallahassee Democrat
Reality, As a result of extreme abortion bans: “Doctors and hospitals are turning away patients…the threat of criminal penalties make them unwilling to test the rules—-NYT
Doctors are watching as their patients get closer and closer to death. “How imminent must death be?”—-obgyn Lisa Harris, MD
[Doctors must] “watch somebody get sicker and sicker and sicker until some point – and where is that point? – where it’s OK to intervene and we won’t be exposed to criminal liability,” King, Vice Chair, ACOG Committee on Ethics.
Another unacceptable risk to women is the time required for a second doctor to examine the patient and review the entire pregnancy record and history. How much time will this add? In an emergency! Women and girls are already being forced to wait around dying while doctors and lawyers debate in the corner.
And according to the law, what happens when the only other doctor on duty has a religious “prolife” agenda and would rather see a ten year old child dead than provide an abortion to save her life?
What does Florida’s law say about conditions like cancer where death is usually not imminent? A radiologist will not treat a pregnant woman, so a six week abortion ban becomes a nine month treatment delay, allowing the cancer to spread. But too bad…no exception. Irrelevant, right? There are Florida women in this situation right now. Does the law tell you just how much women and girls are supposed to suffer for someone else’s religion? Or is that irrelevant too?
Your “irrelevant” comments demonstrate exactly why voting YES on Amendment 4 is so important for Florida women and families. Abortion is NOT controversial in the United States. And over 80% of Americans oppose government interference in abortion. Americans want FREEDOM from government intrusion into our personal lives.
Vote YES on 4 !
otoh
July 19, 2024 at 8:29 am
Your “irrelevant” comment demonstrates exactly why voting YES on Amendment 4 is so vital for Florida. As you point out, to the politicians responsible for this extreme abortion ban the women and girls it affects are simply irrelevant. Voters disagree! Abortion is NOT controversial in the United States. And over 80% of Americans oppose government interference in abortion. Americans want freedom from government intrusion into our personal lives.
Vote YES on 4 !
otoh
July 16, 2024 at 8:56 am
It’s not about belief. It’s about reality. Cheesy is correct. Exceptions are not real.
(Cox v. Texas was just the first court case following the Texas laws. Florida’s six week ban is newer.)
Just a few (random) Florida examples:
Deborah Dorbert, a Florida mother—forced to carry her pregnancy to term to watch her baby die. The death was inevitable. Her life was at risk for the entire pregnancy. Despite exceptions.
Anya Cook—PPROM 15 weeks. 100% baby could not live. And the pregnancy was threatening her life. Actually killing her! Cook was sent home because she was not close enough to death yet at the ER. She nearly died, losing “roughly half” of her blood during the inevitable miscarriage. Despite life exception.
Shanae Smith-Cunningham—Denied abortion and nearly died despite exception.
In Florida there are many more women whose lives and health are being put at risk right now for Republican politicians’ career ambitions. Get the government out of Floridians’ healthcare.
Btw, If you aren’t already horrified by forced pregnancy see McFall v. Shimp
Cheesy Floridian
July 16, 2024 at 10:07 am
Thank you thank you thank you.
Ian
July 17, 2024 at 11:46 am
See my earlier response.
Have a nice day.
Dont Say FLA
July 19, 2024 at 8:21 am
There should be only one exception: “If you don’t want to have an abortion, don’t have one”
Same as with weed. “If you don’t want to smoke/eat weed, just don’t!”
Free State of Florida my arse
Sally B
July 15, 2024 at 7:43 pm
Cheesy is simply holding water for several false narratives properly by the political left’s establishment and its ministry of propaganda, to wit, corporatists in the elite legacy media, the same talking heads now embroiled in an historical scandal (i.e., covering for a President in cognitive decline with his fingers on the nuclear codes). Florida governor Ron DeSantis is the most principled conservative leader in a generation and the most effective Florida governor ever. It helps explain why we Floridians re-elected him to a 2nd term in the greatest landslide in the history of modern Florida politics.
Cheesy Floridian
July 16, 2024 at 10:17 am
I can tell you really have been spoon fed the DeSantis “Truth”. He hides records, he has not helped insurance costs in the state (mine just went up again with no claims EVER filed), he doesn’t do enough to prevent environmental issues, he says he wants to protect our tax dollars by cutting all arts funding but then spends millions on flying people to Martha’s vineyard and legal battles. Also, let’s look at that last election like you mentioned. DeSantis was flying high because of COVID we all know that. The person he ran against Charlie Crist was not a good candidate at all extremely weak. Charlie also didn’t have a lot of money to spend unlike DeSantis who had over $100 million. DeSantis policies because of COVID made him popular and his abortion stance at the time was 15 weeks. Compared to Texas Florida still seemed free yet we all knew he would go for the 6 week ban (which he did). A lot of democrats and independents didn’t turn out to vote because DeSantis was extremely popular and they didn’t like Charlie and probably felt that it wouldn’t have mattered DeSantis was going to win. Now if DeSantis had gone up against a strong Democrat and wasn’t riding a wave of popularity because of COVID I don’t know if it would have been such a landslide.
rick whitaker
July 18, 2024 at 4:19 pm
sally b, you are a right wing nutcase, you do know that we know what you are, if not, that figures.
Almost 80,000 Abortions Annually In Florida
July 16, 2024 at 4:58 pm
Florida performs 16,000~ every MONTH.
Listen to your people; they LOVE abortions.
otoh
July 17, 2024 at 8:09 am
And absolutely none of them are any of your business.
Your business: Women do not become pregnant from having sex. All unwanted pregnancies are caused by a man’s irresponsible ejaculation. Unless you are certain that both of you want a pregnancy—-right now—- you should not be recklessly injecting your sperm into a woman during sex.You know the consequences. Quit blaming women. Take responsibility for your own behavior. Want to be in complete control? Abstain or use a condom.Get it snipped or keep it zipped!
Bonus fyi: Benjamin Franklin put an abortion recipe in his popular math textbook that women and girls had—-and used—-in their own homes. Franklin encouraged young women to use his recipe and to avoid the “pretty Fellows, or any other Trash”.
Elvis Pitts "Political Professor Scientist" American
July 17, 2024 at 5:10 am
Good Morn ‘Ting Dook 4 Brains Leftys,
The Democratic Party is in retreat due to having taken their Crazy too far…way to far.
As for adortion the vast majority dont see abortion as an issue since the power was returned to The Imdividual States.
But I understand…after you Democrats went way to Cray Cray under 8iden…its pretty much all y’all got to run on…killing babies while families that want to adopt are denied…yeah that aint gonna work for y’all Dook 4 Brains Leftys.
Elvis [FKA Earl] Pitts American
*FREE BUMPER STICKER*
*DOOK 4 BRAINS LEFTY ON BOARD*
Enjoy slapping my FREE BUMPER STICKER proudly on the back of y’alls Subarus, EPA
Al Earl Bin Stoopid
July 17, 2024 at 5:51 am
How’s your Gaza apartment, Al Earl bin Stoopid?
Elvis [FKA Earl] Pitts American
July 18, 2024 at 5:32 am
Good Morn ‘Ting Al,
You are hereby placed under a painfull 3 day chastizement from ME, Elvis Pitts American, and yes Lefty Al. The Chastizement includes the dreaded Wanking Ban.
You may begin enjoying your Wanking again Sunday Mornting at 5:35AM Eastern Standard Time.
Thank you Al,
Elvis Pitts [FKA Earl] American
rick whitaker
July 18, 2024 at 4:21 pm
BILLY PURSER / GARY BURBANK / EARL PITTS, what’s got into you? you sound crazy.
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