Carey Theil: Dog racers gaslight while greyhounds continue to die - Florida Politics

Carey Theil: Dog racers gaslight while greyhounds continue to die

In light of a recent industry guest column regarding state gambling data, voters should ask themselves whether they can believe anything the greyhound industry says.

Earlier this week, the Florida Department of Business and Professional Regulation released new data on gambling at Florida racetracks. According to this report, betting at Florida dog tracks fell by 6.4 percent in the most recent fiscal year, compared to the previous year. Gambling on live races fell even more, by a precipitous 7.1 percent.

In part, this decline is due to significant drops at key dog tracks. For example, racetrack betting fell by a catastrophic 11.2 percent at Palm Beach Kennel Club, arguably the flagship facility for the entire industry. Similar drops occurred at Sanford Orlando Kennel Club (8.8 percent), Sarasota Kennel Club (10 percent and Pensacola Greyhound Track (27.3 percent).

These are signs of an industry in its death throes. According to state records, Florida dog tracks lost a combined $34.8 million on racing in 2016, the most recent year for which the data is available.

Everyone knows that greyhound racing only continues today because of the state dog racing mandate, which requires that gambling facilities hold races in order to offer more profitable forms of betting. This mandate has effectively become a subsidy program for greyhound breeders, who are profiting from a product the market no longer wants.

The aforementioned guest column is designed to mislead and confuse. It wrongly attributes this state data to our campaign. It also attacks the state data, referring to an “incomplete financial analysis” and “propaganda.” Finally, it links to a spreadsheet created by a Massachusetts gambler, who claims the amount bet on races originating at Florida dog tracks is more than the state reports.

If the industry wishes to dispute this state data, it can take up its cause with the Division of Pari-Mutuel Wagering. As a policy matter, there is certainly some money bet in other states, via simulcasting, on races that originate at Florida tracks. Those bets originate in other states and are taxed in other states.

The Division is specifically responsible for accounting for and protecting state revenues related to taxable pari-mutuel activities conducted in Florida. As you may be aware, government agencies are not exactly in the habit of letting tax revenue owed to them under state law slip away. For that reason, the state’s numbers remain more credible than those of an out-of-state professional gambler.

The industry uses these out of state bets to fabricate an imaginary monster, the “Advanced Deposit Wagering” internet gambling bogeyman. The industry uses this rhetorical trick because it needs a platform to argue that greyhound racing isn’t dying. It’s a tough task, because every single shred of actual data shows a consistent and perpetual decline. In fact, according to state data, gambling on dog races at Florida tracks has fallen in 25 of the last 26 years.

However, facts are stubborn things.

In reality, just 9.3 percent of all greyhound racing bets were made over the internet in 2015, according to actual records from the states themselves. While we are responding to this point primarily due to the series of false allegations made by the other side, it remains the case that the alleged preferences of bettors in other states have no bearing on the choices of Florida voters.

This is an intentional strategy dog race promoters are using to try to save their cruel industry. If possible, they deny the facts about the way greyhounds live. If that doesn’t work, they invent their own facts and rationalize their behavior. Let me provide a few examples:

— When the state releases data that shows a further decline of the industry, industry promoters release an unsourced spreadsheet from an out-of-state gambler and misrepresent the state data.

— When it becomes clear voters oppose greyhound confinement, industry promoters say that greyhounds are “only” confined for 18 to 20 hours per day, and that’s acceptable because dogs sleep a lot. Apparently they believe dogs like to live in cages.

— When news organizations report on the 483 greyhound deaths that have been reported to the state since 2013, industry promoters deflect by saying that other dogs die too, so apparently these deaths are acceptable.

In a little more than fifty days, Florida voters will head to the polls to decide the future of greyhound racing. I believe they will no longer tolerate this cruelty, or the trickeration being used to enable it. I’m convinced they will vote Yes for the dogs on Amendment 13.


Carey Theil is Senior Advisor to the Protect Dogs-Yes on 13 campaign.


  1. Mr Theil, the king of deception, what state do you and your organization come from? Don’t believe gambler from Massachusetts who gathered correct information that includes ADW wagering which is illegal in Florida, which you can bet with if you are even standing at the track or anywhere else! Taxes are NOT collected in the states where the bets are made. If so could you share that with data as the out of state gambler has. The trickeration here is amendment 13 most definitely will allow stand alone casinos in Florida by the way , the citizens have overwhelming reject several times by the way. Forget Supreme Court decision citezens, but close attention what it does for casino gambling starting January 1,2019. Just look at Justice Quinnes dissenting open , read amendment 13 and the trickeration of the correct out of state person will be very CLEAR

    1. Thanks Jim Blanchard. It seems Mr. Theil is getting rather desperate because he feels the good people of Florida are smart enough to see through this nonsense. What people need to realize is the goal of Mr. Theil and the groups that are funding this ridiculous amendment want to see the end of all animal ownership and activities. Supporting Mr. Theil is supporting PeTA and H$U$. Just #VoteNoOnEverything

    2. Why aren’t you bleeding hearts worried about the thousands of dogs that are put down every year at “Humane Societies”. If Amendment 13 passes there will be approximately 10,000 dogs with no where t go. That doesn’t count the young dogs that are currently ready to head to Florida tracks to replace retiring greyhounds. If you think these dogs will find homes you are dreaming and probably one of the many who take the dog you no longer want to a “Humane Society” so they can put it down, and you can go home happily believing it will be adopted by some loving person.

      1. Well, I’ve said this before, but I guess I’ll have to say it again. Check out our name Ms. Reid. It’s GREY2k. Grey as in greyhound. Get it? Also, I hope you realize that if Prop 13 passes racing won’t end the next day. There will be time to plan for the safe removal of the greyhounds (and the people). Other states have managed it. I don’t see why Florida can’t.

        1. There aren’t 11 tracks in other states Fred who won’t address the question of why anything they say should be believed when their president is a PROVEN LIAR.

        2. More like Greed as in Greed2k, your a scam group and nothing but lies, deceit and twisted facts, other states may have manged it but with no help from your scam group that is suppose to Protect the Dogs,, only dogs that need protecting are the ones the antis own

          1. It’s like I told Andy, Joe. Grey2K has been around for almost 20 years and PR people have been calling us liars and frauds and worse for almost 20 years. And yet we keep winning. Don’t you think it’s about time you folks re-evaluated that strategy?

        3. Fred Barton,
          As a Grey2K board member, can you tell the Florida residents how many of the thousands of displaced Massachusetts greyhounds Grey2K(as in greyhound) placed into adoptive homes or cared for?

        4. Yes Miss Reid, check out the name, also check out how they are in bed with racketeers and aligned with ALF, check out how that is fine with Fred because racketeering is 4 years ago. Check out down in the comments here about how Fred lied about dog deaths being racing related. Check out how they have been implicated in blackmail. Check out how grey2k treasurer Kelly Driscoll lied about them giving hundreds of thousands of dollars to re-home greyhounds. The more you check, the more lies you find.

      2. Brenda- Think for a minute that there would be more homes for the shelter dogs if Greyhounds weren’t overbred. The Greyhound industry adds to the strain of dog overpopulation.

  2. Carey,

    This is the out-of-state-gambler and if it is bad not being from Florida what are you doing running a PAC from out-of state along with your HSUS friends from Washington D.C.?

    You might be the master of confusion, but I’m not confused. Those numbers that were posted are directly from the TOTAL handle and not from the Florida handle.

    You say 9.3 percent of the bets on greyhound racing are made over the internet. Would you care to explain where that number came from? As the master of confusion you “forgot” to tell everyone the amount of money that 9.3 percent totaled. If I go to the track and make 10 two dollar wagers and you go on the internet and make one bet of one thousand dollars my bets total twenty dollars and you bet totals one thousand dollars, yet you made only ten percent of the number of bets that I make.

    You can’t confuse me.

    You have to try and confuse people by using “live ” racing figures and there is no doubt people changed the way they bet. Some people go to the track, sit and watch the races and bet through an ADW. Those bets are co-mingled with the pools, but are not considered “live” bets at the track.

    It’s 2018 and the way people do everything has changed. McDonald’s does 70 percent of their business from the drive-thru window. By your reasoning McDonald’s should close because their “live” business is down seventy percent.

    There are over 87 million dogs in this country and over 18 million of them are crated 18 hours a day and the pet crates for a large dog are smaller than the crates at the kennels.

    How many dog owners have you turned in for being cruel and inhumane to their pets? Actually, how many kennel owners have you turned in for the crates being cruel and inhumane?

    You complain the crates, but all Grey2K had to do was change the state regulated minimum crate size to a larger crate, but what did you do in Florida? You went with a smaller minimum crate size for Florida. There is no greyhound kennel that went the smaller crates because the dogs would have been to confined, but you didn’t care about the dogs, you cared about trying to make the industry look bad.

    It didn’t work.

    As far as the deaths ON TRACK GROUNDS nobody is saying the deaths are acceptable except you, the master of confusion. However, we have to straighten out your misrepresentation of the facts. The idea that a dog dies every three days is a lie. It is just simple math. It has been 63 months since the reporting of greyhound deaths on the grounds of Florida tracks. A dog dying every three days would be ten a month which would total 630 dog deaths.

    You’re not even close.

    On top of that all those deaths were not track related.

    You also had the chance to back the Smith-Rader Greyhound Safety Act which would have covered the rail to help prevent a dog from getting electrocuted and would have required the tracks to install the breakaway lure.

    You didn’t back that bill and it failed to pass.

    It’s obvious you know nothing about greyhound safety since it was a year ago the Irma was barrelling down on Florida and you wanted the greyhound kennels to move 8,000 dogs out of Florida.

    That would have been a suicide mission for the dogs, but what a field day you would have had if the real protector of the greyhounds listened to you. You probably had the story already written to pounce. But, while you and your wife sat 1200 miles away in the safety of your plush offices. The real protectors of the greyhounds hunkered down with the dogs to assure their safety waiting out Irma and ready with generators and extra supplies to care for the dogs.

    One last thing. Why won’t you debate John Parker. You wanted an honest and open debate and John accepted. When you never answered him he went to your FB page to accept and you deleted his post and banned him.

    People on the fence about which way to vote will probably see what you did as not wanting to get the truth out.

  3. I am not concerned whether the revenue declines by 7.3 or 9.1 percent, but I am concerned that 483 greyhounds have died at Florida race tracks or their kennel compounds; I am concerned that greyhounds are confined for 20+ hours each day; I am concerned that there have been more than 400 drug positives in racing greyhounds in the last decade, including 70 for cocaine metabolites. It is time to end this industry based on exploiting these wonderful dogs, WHO LOVE TO RUN; THEY DON’T LOVE TO RACE. I am sure that Florida voters will agree and vote to Protect the Dogs – Yes on 13.

    1. Don, I am concerned every time you type you lie just like Theil. Keep typing the cocaine mirage, numbers are good for you but the truth behind them is not. Get a clue in your life pal, or maybe run to your lawyer again.

      1. Steve, rather than attacking me again, why not share what I’ve lied about. Everything I put in my comment is from Florida state records. If you are saying they are lies, please cite an equivalent source.

        1. I have cited the court case a hundred times and you people ignore it. Come on Don you are not that stupid, surely you have read that and the facts testified by Dr. Cole and Dr. Tobin. You are still saying environmental contamination does not exist, and that is a LIE. It’s on YOUR website. That was refuted by the above court case and experts not to mention Florida Statute 550.2415(1)(b) which also mentions environmental contamination. So are YOU saying the judge, TWO experts, AND the statute are full of crap??

        2. sorry Donny , you lies on TV when they interviewed you, you didnt even know the crate sizes used, you tell so many lies you cant keep up with them

        3. Don Goldstein,
          How many of those alleged drug positives were deemed invalid by a judge. How many times were they appealed by the state and the DBPR unsuccessfully. Don’t you think they would have all the evidence and all the facts?

    2. You keep going on and on about 70 positives, which are at a level far below the threshold for a human test, but fail to mention the total number of tests over the same time period. Why is that Don? Is it because you don’t want people to know that was out of more than 470000 tests?

    3. That’s right, don’t mention those positives were one one thousandths of one percent of all drug tests, don’t mention the court saw fit to throw them out, don’t mention the head of the agency during the drug tests is now a lobbyist for grey2k, don’t mention the test that was sent out for independent testing was found to contain NO CANINE DNA, don’t mention the fact the president of grey2k is a confirmed liar, don’t mention your partners in crime HSUS are convicted RACKETEERS. You’re going to LOSE liar, then you can escape to your safe room with your weirdo vegan scammer friends.

    4. and how many have died in the hands of the HSUS, Peta and other scam groups like yours, dont forget the urine test that came back as no canine DNA, so that says some humane that is a coke head and had access to the samples like your lobbyist that use to work with the testing

      Dont believe the lies from Greed2k all they want is your money Vote No on all amendments especially No on 13, send their sorry asses back to their own state

  4. A few simple corrections: 1. I am the Chair of the Committee to Protect Dogs (YES ON 13!) and have been a Florida resident for 3+ decades. Which in this state makes me a native. I have had greyhounds for almost all of that time. 2. Florida does not want greyhound racing, plain and simple, and would have seen it gone 20 some years ago had it not been for the 1997 rule. Market forces would have triumphed. 3. Times have changed…those who don’t adjust to change, well they just keep running around in circles.

    1. Unless you were BORN here, it does not make you a “native” LOL. Again look at the reasoning behind these people. I have been here almost 3 decades and am NOT a native, but my son who was BORN here is. Another “get a clue” moment for a member of the charlatans

    2. Little education lesson for you Joyce
      a person born in a specified place or associated with a place by birth, whether subsequently resident there or not.
      “a native of Montreal”

    3. Yes Joyce, you are the “chair” on paper. So why is it that YOU don’t address the media? Why is it that Christine Dorchak comments AS Protect Dogs- Yes on 13 on facebook? It’s simple- you got elected as the “fall guy.” Foolish move. Congratulations on that…

  5. Again The Protect Dogs campaign put out the numbers from the state and wanted to make people think the industry is dying from a decrease in betting, which is not the case. As Mr. Ciampa illustrated with his work, like everything else in our modern society, the internet is a place of convenience to which it seems betters have migrated. The rebuttal was just to show the REAL numbers behind betting which the Protect Dogs campaign tried to mislead the public with once again. Why is it that every rebuttal to you is “gaslighting” “last minute effort” etc etc. You got caught misrepresenting the actual truth again, and were called on it.

    1. Yes Crown if you go to the pages for past results for the 3 tracks that were done, you can see the difference. You have to go to every performance, look at the bottom and that is where the handle is listed for that performance. You have to do it for a whole year for each track. It takes 3-4 hours but it can be verified. They are taking advantage of the fact that people even at the track bet on their smart phones instead of walk to the window, just like shopping at Amazon, people have become lazy. So the numbers reported by the state only include the bets made at the teller windows, not the internet. And for the three tracks, totaled over 200 million more than was reported in the annual DBPR report.

  6. Sadly, I am not a Florida native. We moved here when I was four. But, I am a Florida voter, and that is what counts.

    All the personal attacks, insults and threats from industry supports don’t change the facts, and those facts – cruel confinement, injuries, deaths, drugging and so on – are unacceptable to Florida voters. They will #VoteYesOn13.

    1. are you one of the losers that tried to have service dogs removed from a public place, if you didnt know that was against the law, your group is nothing but a scam and full of deceit
      Vote NO on 13 dont believe the lies

  7. I know for a fact that the statistics cited by Don Goldstein have been reported by the State and are known to be true. These statistics alone are enough to vote YES on Amendment 13. It’s too bad that Seminole County is the only one reporting injuries, but the sampling there over a year’s time is not pretty. It is time to close this chapter in Florida’s history and end this archaic, cruel business of exploiting gentle creatures in the interest of profit for the very few.

    Vote YES on Amendment 13

  8. So wait Joyce isnt a native- I was born in Florida Do I count – Everything Joyce says is true- And the state records dont lie- You Pro Racers are terrible- Cant even fight with facts How is anyone to believe you say anything true The voters in Florida are not stupid- They can follow facts- As Joyce Carta says says “A few simple corrections: 1. I am the Chair of the Committee to Protect Dogs (YES ON 13!) and have been a Florida resident for 3+ decades. Which in this state makes me a native. I have had greyhounds for almost all of that time. 2. Florida does not want greyhound racing, plain and simple, and would have seen it gone 20 some years ago had it not been for the 1997 rule. Market forces would have triumphed. 3. Times have changed…those who don’t adjust to change, well they just keep running around in circles.”

    1. when are they coming out with facts, all Greed2k has is Alternative facts, your group has no credibility and the public is finding out fast

  9. Numbers, numbers, numbers. It is in numbers that Carey and all the extremist animal rights minions of GREY2K, HSUS and “Protect Dogs” bring their trickeration tactics to near-perfection. They use a specific strategy in their dishonest advocacy: pick a number, isolate it, hide the rest; never reveal context or full data. Shamelessly sensationalize isolated figures. This is an intentional pattern of behavior. They do anything to avoid full disclosure. This is also how they defend their propaganda, empty scripted rhetoric, and self-enrichment lobbying.
    Here’s a number for you, Carey: 83. That’s the number of Greyhound adoption groups across the U.S. and Canada who focus on Greyhound welfare and know that Greyhound racing is neither “cruel” nor “inhumane.” That’s the number of Greyhound adoption groups who support the continuation of Greyhound racing and are urging Florida voters to vote NO on Amendment 13.
    Here’s another number for you, Carey: 16. That’s the number of Greyhound adoption groups in Florida alone who focus on Greyhound welfare and know that Greyhound racing is neither “cruel” nor “inhumane.” That’s the number of Florida Greyhound adoption groups who support the continuation of Greyhound racing and are urging their fellow Floridians to vote NO on Amendment 13.
    And a final number for you, Carey: 11. That’s the number of times I’ve challenged you or one of your sycophants to a live, open public debate on Greyhound racing. A debate in the free and open marketplace of ideas in which you can’t control the conversation by your post-and-run tactic or by deleting comments and banning people who disagree with you from your social media platforms.
    So, let’s make it an even dozen, shall we Carey ? Let’s you and I have a live, open and public debate on Greyhound racing. I look forward to your 12th running from this debate challenge.

    John Parker
    Greyhound Adopters for Racing

  10. It is heartening–if somewhat unusual–to see the racing industry come up with a topic and then stick to it–mostly–like the supposed profitability of the industry. With that in mind, I have some questions for Mr. Ciampa: If racing is so profitable, why are tracks closing all over the country–and the world? Why are track owners eager to get out from under racing? Why did the casinos in Iowa spend millions of dollars to separate themselves from racing? Why are states trying to end subsidies to racing, and why does racing need those subsidies to begin with?

    And as a caveat to those of you just coming to the discussion, please know that Prop 13 isn’t abut the profitability, or unprofitably of the industry. It’s about rescuing suffering greyhounds from the racing gulags in which they are trapped.

    1. A racing Greyhound has a 1000% better chance of living out a happy, healthy life than the thousands of dogs euthanized in Florida shelters every day. But I suppose there is no money in caring about those shelter dogs so PD 13 and its minio…I mean million$ simply do not care. Instead, they focus on a pure bred dog which has a better chance of survival and health and excellent care than any dog right this second in a Florida shelter. While I was typing the state of Florida probably euthanized another dozen healthy shelter dogs. But I don’t see “Protect Dogs” sticking up for them.
      And this is about more to a great many Floridians – Florida watch out because you are about to have stand alone casinos ALL OVER you state. And “Protect Dogs” will not care. Neither will Grey2$. Good luck with that. ALWAYS follow the money. It leads to casino interests who cannot wait to end horse and dog racing (Calder anyone?). It leads to the tens of millions of dollars the Humane Society of the US and PETA rake in every year. If these people “Protect Dogs” cared about dogs in any way shape or form – they would dedicate their lives to fighting for homeless animals, shelter dogs, and other dogs who truly need help.

      1. Well, looks like it’s back to changing the subject. Prop 13 is about saving the greyhounds. If you want to put a proposal on the ballot to close shelters or end horse racing, fine, go ahead. But in the meantime let’s talk about the greyhounds that are abused, injured and killed for profit.

        1. Ok Freddy, let’s talk abuse shall we? Now, if you had any common sense, obviously God forgot to give you any, you would know that an abused greyhound couldn’t race. If the greyhound was being abused by slapping him, depriving him of food, and lack of attention and then you put that greyhound on the track, he is not going to race. So the abuse myth is busted. You simply can’t get a good racer if they are abused. So that’s put to rest. Now injuries, injuries happen to dogs of all kinds every day of the year. Greyhound injuries are very few. You can go to the tracks and sit all day watching every race and not see one single injury. Then the next day you can go back and oops, a greyhound turned wrong and got a minor sprain. But in the mean time, hundreds of adopted dogs are getting hurt every day. Are you saying we should keep all dogs in bubbles so there are no injuries? Injuries happen, even to people every single day. Get over it. Okay next subject, “killed for profit.” Do you see how very stupid that sounds? If they kill a greyhound, they are not making a profit on him. They are loosing money. Greyhounds are not killed. If a greyhound dies at the track, it is not intentional. No owner wants to lose his greyhound. The tracks are so well maintained anymore that greyhound deaths are so few you can count them on your pinky finger. Of course you have no idea about any of this because you NEVER go to a track or kennel to find out if any of this is true, which it is. But seeing that you are blinded by stupidity, you will never learn the truth. If you really truly believe greyhounds are abused, you really need mental help. Only a true moron would believe that crap.

          1. Unfortunately, you list only one type of abuse. Ask Ron Williams about some others, or ask the dogs who are injured and don’t receive proper care, or ask the dogs who got sick on 4D meat, and so on, and so on.

          2. LOL- Freddy you need to stop reading from the “Theil Book of Propaganda”. These dogs eat better than most people. Truly, those of you that follow the cult of PeTA, H$U$ and Grey2Scam need to open your eyes.
            These dogs are not dying on the track, the only thing dying is Amendment 13. BTW dogs can’t talk, so we really cannot ask them anything. Actually, if you believe the fantasy the other side is spewing, you might be better off asking a Greyhound, you might get more coherent information. #WeWillNeverStop

          3. Freddy, that Ron Williams thing was years ago. It’s over with. He was thrown out. All you ever have is crap from years ago. Give me something from last month, this month, 2 months ago. You have nothing. Injuries are taken care of right away. There is a track vet available for every race, every day. It’s the state law that a vet has to be present. Greyhounds are checked before and after every race. If a greyhound suffer an injury the vet checks him out. If the greyhound needs to be seen at a vet’s office, the greyhound goes to the vet’s office to be treated. If that greyhound has an injury that ends his career, the owner sends him to an adoption group that does follow up vet care before he gets adopted. See? You just learned another TRUTH. Again, you’re crying 4D meat. Do you even know what 4D meat is? It is raw beef that has no additives to it that would make it edible for humans, that is all. It is perfectly healthy for the greyhounds. It is also used to make commercial dog food that adopters feed their dogs every day. Do you really think they would feed greyhounds bad meat and expect them to stay healthy? You really can’t be that stupid can you? I mean come on Freddy, seriously? Greyhounds would get extremely ill and couldn’t perform or even live on bad food. The raw food comes in frozen. They put it out to defrost so it can be mixed with dry kibble, vegetables, rice, pasta and fruits and vitamins. If you actually would visit a kennel, you would know this, but you believe all the bull crap from your minion friends that have also never been to any kennels. You know the more I try to explain the truth to you, the dumber you get. All you do is repeat the same rhetoric over and over even when you’re presented with the truth, you still say the same lies all over again. Nothing gets through that block head of yours.

          4. I guess you have missed all of the news on dog doping haven’t you? Or maybe it’s because you can’t read because you certainly can’t write (lose not loose you loser).

            Drugged abused dogs DO run – they run fast because they are fearful and drugged. Drugging, killing, mistreatment, live baiting…. these activities are all endemic in the greyhound racing industry, and I would send you the links to all of the articles if I thought you could read them.

            Let’s get to the bigger picture: why do you need to make money off an animal’s back? Why don’t you get a real job with your “intelligence” and skills – or is it because you have none?

      2. Haha…yeah, because once the dogs’ extremely short racing careers are over, they get to live out the next decade of their lives in comfort at the breeders’ Magical Land for Retired Greyhounds.

        They’re certainly NOT euthanized or dumped on adoption agencies, because the industry flacks say so.

        Y’all can lobby on this comment board all you want, but it won’t make a difference. The amendment will pass and this relic of an industry will die out like it should’ve decades ago. Blaming the Human Society and people who care about animals for your troubles just makes you sound as out-of-touch as people already think you are.

    2. Simple. ADW money. The tracks get a minute fraction if any, of what’s wagered on their product. There aren’t any new laws that prevent citizens from making their wagers online.

      1. Stevie boy! Haven’t heard from you in a while dude. Say, I asked Mr. Ciampa some questions about his report and it looks like he’s not going to answer, so maybe you could give it a go: If racing is so profitable, why are tracks closing all over the country–and the world? Why are track owners eager to get out from under racing? Why did the casinos in Iowa spend millions of dollars to separate themselves from racing? Why are states trying to end subsidies to racing, and why does racing need those subsidies to begin with?

        As to your other point, yes, I will continue to argue that the industry is unprofitable the same as I will argue about the dangerous food, the confident issues and all the other aspects of cruelty that are symptoms of greyhound racing. But, at the same time–and this is important for new readers coming to the issue–these elements of racing are just symptoms. Prop 13 seeks to cure the disease and regardless of what red herring the industry throws up to obscure that fact, curing the disease is what Florida voters will be deciding in November.

        1. I’ve never seen a tracks financial statement and neither have you. You like to talk about handle and when I did you changed the subject.

          What I do know is Jacksonville, Derby Lane, Palm Beach, Sanford Orlando and Daytona all have VOTE NO ON 13 on their websites.

          What does that tell you? Why would the tracks want to keep an endeavor that is not profitable?

          1. ” Why would the tracks want to keep an endeavor that is not profitable?”

            Umm…Because the state makes them?

            Here’s another concept for you to ponder. If racing is so profitable why did Magic City ferret out a loophole that let them drop racing for jai-alai?

        2. Why don’t they cure the Flaka, meth, homeless people, shelter animals, etc and so forth. They really need to cure people like you that are probably getting paid to feed the greed. You obviously had a bad childhood or something

    3. A question for you Fred that you haven’t answered when asked before, why should anyone believe a word anybody in your organization says when your PRESIDENT, one Christine Dorchak’, is a PROVEN liar?

      1. Andy, Grey2k has been around for almost 20 years now and PR people have been calling us liars and frauds and worse for almost 20 years. And yet we keep winning. Don’t you think it might be time for you folks to reevaluate that strategy?

        1. Ah, then tell us, oh wise Fred, how can, in court documents, Dorchak’ say she has ‘ no memory ‘ of the accident, yet in the easily found solicitation video, describe said accident in minute detail to solicit donations. Therefore, she is either lying in court, or lying in the video. Surely you will attempt to spin it away as you do all the other lies, but there is no getting around the fact that she us a PROVEN LIAR

          1. That’s funny Fred, on your website, again, the website who has a proven LIAR as president, I closed once i read the lie that greyhound racing is illegal in 40 states, because that is a LIE. Greyhound racing is illegal in ONE state…. Idaho, ALL dog racing of any kind is illegal there, the BETTING is illegal, not the racing, yet another example of how you twist the truth and flatout LIE.

            Tell me Freddy, if Grey2k had any integrity whatsoever, would they get into bed with a group fined 15,000,000 dollars for racketeering for paying a witness to LIE. Perhaps you are both organizations who engage in lying and fraud to enrich yourselves? Of course that’s it. And ley’s not forget being aligned with a terrorist organization, Animal Liberation Front. Before Freddy tries to spin that away, google ” Christine Dorchak Animal Liberation Front” and see what you find. There is her face right there on their website, she even was the keynote speaker at their convention, Freddy doesn’t like mentioning that.

        2. Freddy, the only thing grey2k and you minions win at is lying. The only reason they have been around for 20 years is because of the lies that get people, or should I say, morons to donate their money thinking they are helping greyhounds, when in fact that money goes into their pockets. That’s the only way they are surviving, through moron donations. If everyone stopped donating they would be out of business just like that. People are starting to catch on to them. Less and less are donating. They are being shown what liars you are.

          1. Freddy, do you actually think the people sending donations will vote NO? I know we’ve turned a lot of people around and they see how deceitful you are and they will be voting NO, but there are still a few that need convincing. Those that really believe you actually do help greyhounds. Which you don’t and never will.

      2. Andy, Grey2K has been around for almost 20 years and PR people have been calling us liars and frauds and worse for almost 20 years. And yet we keep winning. Don’t you think it’s about time you folks re-evaluated that strategy?

        1. Freddy, the only thing grey2k and you minions win at is lying. The only reason they have been around for 20 years is because of the lies that get people, or should I say, morons to donate their money thinking they are helping greyhounds, when in fact that money goes into their pockets. That’s the only way they are surviving, through moron donations. If everyone stopped donating they would be out of business just like that. People are starting to catch on to them. Less and less are donating. They are being shown what liars you are.

          1. You should say that they are the dying breed. Nasty scum sucking bottom feeders. They are scared their easy paycheck is fixing to end.

    4. Why did hsus get charged with racketeering if they aren’t criminals? Why was grey2k implicated in blackmail if they aren’t criminals? Why does Dorchak’ lie if she isn’t a confirmed liar? Why won’t any of you debate John Parker if you aren’t lying cowards?

  11. Lmao, isn’t that the pot calling the kettle black? An out of state animal extremist group calling out an out of state gambler. Lies, and deception are the only thing that these crazy animal rights groups have. 83 adoption groups are in support of voting no on amendment 13. What’s that tell you? Why doesn’t any of these crazy groups take up John on a debate? Why does Carey and all his minions run scared when offered? Wasn’t there a debate set up with Carlos G-Smith and Carey. Carlos didn’t show up and Carey left crying because he got his butt handed to him. It’s truly pathetic! Vote No on 13 and send these out of state crazies home for good!

  12. No Fred!! It’s about “Free Standing Casino’s” coming to the State of Florida. Expansion of Gambling that the Congress of Florida can’t pass as the people do NOT want new casinos. Remember, (there are 2 Permits) in Miami alone.

    1. But if the Legislature wanted to get rid of greyhound racing so they could expand gambling, why didn’t they just pass one of the decoupling bills? That would have ended racing without all the fuss and muss of a constitutional amendment.

  13. as carey has shown so well…it has never been about the greyhounds……the greyhounds are simply a means to provide him and his wife a comfortable lifestyle….more donation money goes into his pockets than goes to aid greyhounds…….

    1. They could not pass a Decoupling Bill as you and I know Fred. It’s expansion of gambling and hence MORE gambling. They don’t (ie Casino’s) even have the maximum number of slots allowed under the current authorization? So what does that tell you Fred? We need a CRC to get them out for more space!!

      1. But you said the legislature wanted to expand gambling but couldn’t because the people were against it. If the legislature wanted it, why couln’t they pass decoupling and get what you say they wanted?

  14. Once again, we see the defenders of dog racing using the only tools they have left – gaslighting or moving the goal posts. When exposed that the dogs spend an unacceptable amount of time in confinement, they try to justify it. When faced with facts about the decline of the industry they are trying so very hard to keep afloat, despite the official records of how bad this ship is sinking, they pull our unverified and unverifiable information. As a Florida voter, I am encouraging all my fellow Floridians to do the right thing, see past all these smokescreens and misdirection and vote Yes on 13 to help these amazing greyhounds

    1. Bryan,

      It is obvious the you are the one that is lying. The only people that have a problem with either is you, Grey2K and HSUS. The state has no problem with it and they have been in the kennels over 8,000 times in the last five years and are saying all is well and the dogs are treated well. If the inspectors saw what you tell people exists inside the kennels they would shut every kennel down since the large crates the dogs are in are 1/3, that is 33 percent, larger than the minimum size required by the FDPMW.

      Are you accusing the FDPMW of being complicit in seeing inhumane and cruel treatment of the greyhounds and covering it up?

      You say the amount of time the dogs spend in their crates is unacceptable. The state inspectors say you don’t know what you are talking about.

      Why don’t you tell Carey to debate John Parker? Wouldn’t both sides love to see a good and open debate? Getting the truth out is what I want, but Carey seems apprehensive about the truth coming out. When you’re lying you can’t let the truth out and when you are telling the truth you want to shout it loud and clear to everyone.

      1. Dick, they’ll never agree to a live, open and public debate because that’s where numbers are put in full context, hyperbole is shown for what it is and questions that are asked must be answered responsively. If the anti-racing folks had the better argument, one that doesn’t depend on fundamental dishonesty to advance, they’d jump at the chance to debate. Their refusal to debate is a self-admission that they know that they’re advocacy can’t withstand the scrutiny and testing that a debate would provide. Each such retreat from the challenge just demonstrates that further.

        John Parker
        Greyhound Adopters for Racing

        1. John, I hear ya. We’ll keep trying because even people on opposite sides of ballot questions have debates many times. Most people that are telling the truth want more people to hear their side, not less.

          I guess if the yes side loses this vote everyone can look at right at Carey and blame him.

    2. Oh look… It’s Bryan Wilson… The same Bryan Wilson who tries to run greyhound transportation vehicles off of the road, with greyhounds and children in them…
      The same Bryan Wilson who’s sour grapes led to his attempt to have Service Greyhounds and their US Veteran handlers kicked out of the East Side Regional Hob Nob… The greyhounds need to be PROTECTED FROM YOU!!! Disgusting

    3. ” Smokescreens and misdirection”, this coming from the side with a proven liar as president, with convicted racketeers, the side found guilty of outright trickeration. Too funny

    4. Again, ‘ smokescreens and misdirection”, from the side with a confirmed liar as president, implicated in blackmail, and convicted racketeers.

  15. I think that the question here is this… We know that the forces advocating for Amendment 13 are well aware of ADW wagering- what it does, and what it does not do. Is there wagering on greyhound racing being conducted through this entity? Yes… Is it taxed by the state of Florida? No…
    With that being said, why would the PD13 campaign choose to release incomplete numbers to Florida voters via media outlets? If gambling is indeed dwindling, why intenionally omit over $200Million in revenue taken from 3 of the Florida Greyhound tracks in 2017? This was a deliberate attempt to mislead the Florida voters with incomplete and agenda suiting data. What would happen if the PD13 proponents were forced in a court of law to tell “The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?” Would they still intentionally omit these numbers? That’s hard to say, seeing as how the leader of Grey2K- Christine Dorchak either knowingly commited purgery while under oath, or sensationalized and essentially fabricated the chain of events in her train wreck for the sole purpose of soliciting donations. She can’t have it both ways…
    What it comes down to is that the PD13 campaign is based on half truths, flat out lies and deliberate deception aimed at Florida’s voters so that they are not made fully aware of the truth when they head to the polls.

    1. No doubt you are one who wishes to get rid of horse racing, Iditarod, anything involving working animals, part of the lunatic fringe

    2. Bill Malone,
      Animals have no voice but have a choice. If you look through programs and chart writer comments often you will see “REFUSED”. That is when a greyhound makes a choice to NOT run in a race. They do have decision making abilities. Please not at the end of a race most if not all 8 dogs are wagging their tails. One can not force a dog to wag it’s tail.

      1. Indeed. In what other animal-owning community, including the pet dog owning community, can the animal decide it wants to quit its job and be assured of a pet home for the rest of its life ? Racing Greyhounds, unlike almost any other breed, have a guaranteed retirement, which they can go into at any time they decide they no longer want to race. They have more choice in that regard than most dogs.
        Perhaps Bill Malone can identify those dogs that have “a voice” or “a choice” regarding what happens to them, where they go, how they live, what parts of their anatomy they get to keep, or how long they’re confined each day while their owners are at work ?

        John Parker
        Greyhound Adopters for Racing

        1. Wait. The dogs decide when they want to quit? How does that work, does a dog get up one day and say, well, I’m tired. Guess I’ll go out and break my leg today so I can have my guaranteed retirement. More likely you say “that dog’s not making any money. Get rid of it.”

          1. I’ve had 2 racers in the past year decide they didn’t want to run anymore. They were both adopted out to good homes and are loving their retirement!

  16. OK I’m going to assume your answer to my previous question about changing your strategy of kill ( or at least malign) the messenger is a big nope. Then answer me this one: do you really think your opinion of us is going to change anyone’s vote?

  17. As I’ve said before, I must have missed the meeting where Grey2K agreed to be totally responsible for everything. These movements are team efforts by many groups, including, in Florida, the state itself which defended Prop 13 before the Supreme Court.

    1. Like the group convicted of racketeering Fred? Like your group, the one aligned with terrorist group ALF and implicated in blackmail, the one having a confirmed liar as President? The one that admitted to fraudulent advertising in Mass? The one who has lies all over their website? Such as greyhound racing illegal in 40 states? The ones who lie about saying 70% of Floridians want greyhound racing to end when it’s really 45-45?

    1. And some of them are doing the kennel visits and spreading the word the dogs are treated like royalty. You people even lie about the polling. You lie about everything. Any voter can search for the truth and see who the liars are. After all, no one on our side has been convicted of racketeering, or has their face on the website of a known terrorist organization.

        1. Kennel visits are back on Freddy with some minor changes. You have to get your name on the list for the kennel you want to tour and you get a tour of the kennels and get your questions answered. Why don’t you try it Freddy? Are you man enough, or a coward? Go see the TRUTH!

    1. Your paycheck won’t end, you will just morph into some other scam, like dog shows, or horse2k, or some thing where you can continue your fraudulent ways. Why is it you never comment on being a partner with convicted racketeers?

  18. Wait, what? We’re working our butts off to end greyhound racing and you say we’re scared our paycheck is going to end if it does? You’re going to have to walk me through that one.

  19. Except it isn’t cruel, only lunatic fringe weirdos think it is. And yes, if it wasn’t a scam you wouldn’t have to engage in fraud to dupe people into donating money. After all, you have a confirmed liar as president. Also, as stated before, if you had any integrity whatsoever you would refuse to align yourself with convicted racketeers and known terrorist organizations. But of course you welcome them because you are as corrupt as them. I bet you are one of the crackpot democratic socialists too. You still didnt comment on the fact that you are in bed with convicted racketeers. Who on our side is a convicted racketeer Fred?

    1. You people read what Fred says there, he admits it, they will be on to dog shows, horse racing, anything involving animal will be labeled “cruel”, “inhumane”, and they will spread disinformation and flatout lies to destroy the activity, exactly whet they are doing with racing. Remember, they tried to get service dogs evicted from Hob Nob, we must stop their scam here, this time. We cannot allow this scum to come our state and push their fraudulent agenda on us.

          1. Because you lie and distort the truth to get money, there is a donate button on every page on your fb, the money is used for a lavish lifestyle for the 2 head liars. You BEG, like dorchak does in the video, or in Christian Science Monitor, ‘ please give all you can”. You are defaming hard working people who love the dogs, and trying to take away their living. You didn’t answer the question Freddy, one more time… If grey2k had any integrity whatsoever, why would they align themselves with racketeers and terrorists? Who on our side was fined $15,000,000 for racketeering?

    2. OK: A greyhound is born on a farm for the sole purpose of making its owner money. Then shipped to a kennel where the dog’s life is regularly put in danger until it can no longer make money at which time it is discarded. That’s not cruel?

        1. Google HSUS racketeering, you will see where I came up with it, you already know dorchak is proudly displayed on the terrorist website. That is the difference between the 2 sides, we tell the truth and you lie

          1. You do know we’re separate organizations, don’t you. And that was over four years ago. Ruth just got done yelling at me because my facts weren’t from this year. Do I get to do the same to you?

          2. Yes, I know you are separate organizations, like 2 peas in a pod. Scammers, what difference does 4 years ago have to do with it, once a racketeer always a racketeer. The fact that you are in bed with them proves you have zero association like them, and the terrorists too of course. Birds of a feather flock together, criminal behavior takes priority

          1. And who on our side has been charged with abuse, with sending unprofitable dogs off to die, with giving them harmful drugs, with leaving them in their crates to die of starvation?

          2. Well Fred, show me the police reports of the ones charged with abuse or cruelty that the industry didn’t deal with. Left in crates to starve, another lie, like your deaths. Who on our side has their picture on a terrorist website, there Freddy?

          3. Gotta run for now Freddo, I will respond to your next set of lies later. Must go to the gym, something you or any of racketeer/terrorist friends have never done. I wouldn’t be surprised if y’all even know the unabomber.

  20. No, that’s not cruel. It is a sport, the injury percentage is extremely low compared to starts. Injuries happen in any facet of life. I answered your question, now you answer mine. If grey2k had any integrity whatsoever, why would they get in bed with racketeers and a known terrorist organization

  21. OK. How about:

    WW Teresa who died at St. Petersburg on May 21 or
    Tahas Wrangler who died in Orlando on the same day or
    Love Sick who died at Orange Park on May 19 or
    Kaktiss who died at St. Petersburg on May 15 or
    Del Sol Bilbao who also died at St Petersburg that day or
    XT’s Death Trap who died At Sanford on May 13.

    Shall I go on or would you like to move the goal posts now. Oh, if you like I can give you the case numbers so you can look them up yourself.

    1. Fred Barton,
      I’d like to see the case numbers. Why did you pick May? That probably was the worst month you could find. How many of the 7 died from medical conditions? No one likes to see a dog die, unless your Grey2K. Grey2K exploits extremely rare greyhound tragedies and takes them out of context to panhandle for donations. Those donations rarely go to dogs in need. Do they? Greyhounds are the safest breed in the US. Over 95% adoption rate, 24 hour security, climate controlled kennels in Florida, criminal background checks, including fingerprinting to be licensed, unannounced kennel inspections by state authorities and track authorities, racing on groomed and sifted beach sand, mandatory random drug testing, and veterinary care track side for every live race. All to ensure safety of the luckiest breed in the U.S.

      BTW since your a board member and Carey is still hiding, why don’t you debate John Parker or are you also spineless and afraid of the truth. You put yourself out there as an expert or are you just spoon fed comments by your puppet masters.

  22. By all means give the case numbers because I am sure you are lying. But you didn’t answer the question,, which of course you don’t mention it because the answer is you are a scam, lying group of fraudsters who feels right at home with racketeers and terrorists.

    1. [?] Sanford Orlando Kennel Club XT’s Death Trap 126G-69784
      2018026626 St. Petersburgh Kennel Club Del Sol Bilbao 26B-68059
      2018026525 St. Petersburgh Kennel Club Kaktiss 114A-65402
      2018026936 Orange Park Kennel Club Love Sick 86G-69181
      [?] Sanford Orlando Kennel Club Tahas Wrangler 44J -63654
      2018027511 St. Petersburgh Kennel Club WW Teresa 96C-69289

      I didn’t have the case numbers for all so I included the tattoos. This is public record Ruth. It’s no big secret.

  23. If the deaths are truthful, how many were racing related, very few if any. That is one way you distort the truth, you don’t differentiate between death from disease or injury. Funny how I answered your question but you won’t answer mine. How many dogs and cats too for that matter were MURDERED by your shelter supporters in May alone?

    1. Google HSUS racketeering, you will see where I came up with it, you already know dorchak is proudly displayed on the terrorist website. That is the difference between the 2 sides, we tell the truth and you lie

      1. Sure they were Fred, and grey2k is an honest organization full of integrity, never mind the fact they are aligned with racketeers and terrorists, that’s ” irrelevant”. Answer the question

      2. Fred Barton,
        Grey2K board member caught lying and deceiving the public AGAIN.
        I know for a fact Kaktiss and WW Teresa both were scratched before they raced. Both died of acute medical conditions.
        I haven’t checked on the others yet.

        1. That’s hardly a surprise, He said they were all race related, yet ANOTHER lie. About what you can expect from one who’s friends are RACKETEERS

          1. In your view, lol. You must be an expert. Maybe you’d like to debate John Parker since your puppet master has tucked his tail at least a dozen times.

          2. Here is the spin. In your view criminal behavior is ok if it’s 4 years ago too. Are you people beginning to see the thought process of these fraudster RACKETEERS?

          3. Fred, as a Grey2K board member and spokesperson, can you elaborate on your view(s) as to why greyhounds who died of acute medical conditions are track related ?

      3. Fred Barton
        September 13, 2018 at 2:43 pm
        They were all race related.


        The dogs at Sanford Orlando Kennel Club and St. Petersburg Kennel Club all died of an acute medical condition. That’s 5 of the 6 you referenced that WERE NOT RACE RELATED. Of course I’m assuming your group has the records since you cited the numbers. Willfully deceiving the Florida voters

        What else are you and your board members lying about.

        [?] Sanford Orlando Kennel Club XT’s Death Trap 126G-69784
        2018026626 St. Petersburgh Kennel Club Del Sol Bilbao 26B-68059
        2018026525 St. Petersburgh Kennel Club Kaktiss 114A-65402
        2018026936 Orange Park Kennel Club Love Sick 86G-69181
        [?] Sanford Orlando Kennel Club Tahas Wrangler 44J -63654
        2018027511 St. Petersburgh Kennel Club WW Teresa 96C-69289

  24. Still waiting on Fred to answer the question, one more time, If grey2k had any integrity whatsoever, why would they align themselves with racketeers and terrorists?

  25. Everyone reading notice how Fred accuses us of changing the subject, then he does exactly that by bringing up these dubious deaths instead of answering the question posed to him time and again

  26. See how you run with racketeers and terrorists…… criminals, liars, thieves, fraudsters. That sums up grey2k. Let’s not forget a PROVEN LIAR is your president

  27. No comment on how many animals were MURDERED by your shelter endorsers in may, 1000….. 2000…. 3000, what hypocrites you are, as well as criminals of course. I guess one could say your shelter endorsers and mass murderers

  28. Now the treasurer of fred’s lying scam group is say they donated ” hundreds of thousands of dollars” to help the greyhounds displaced in Mass through their duplicity. The lies never stop. The only ones getting ‘ hundreds pf thousands of dollars” is the 2 head liars.

    1. Andy: Linda Jensen supervised the movement of all greyhounds once the tracks closed in New England. No money was given by any group to help place all those greyhounds. Raynham, Wonderland the State of Mass. funded that effort. The AR’s was suppose to supply money for the re-training of employee’s that lost their job. No money was given to that either. All they did was take credit for banning the greyhounds in Mass. to achieve more donations.

  29. “…what difference does 4 years ago have to do with it…”

    Well, if I understood Ruth right, dogs that died more than a couple of months ago don’t count, so using that logic, something that happened to a separate organization over four years ago shouldn’t count. Sounds fair.

    1. But Freddy, what your partners in crime did is. CRIME. That makes all the difference in the world, just like BLACKMAIL is a crime, which your scam group was implicated in. Your sister organization one ANIMAL LIBERATION FRONT, commits crimes all the time. Birds of a feather certainly flock together, don’t they. You people understand what Freddy is saying here. It’s fine to be in bed with RACKETEERS, because the crime was 4 years ago. Wonder how many more times they have lied criminally but not gotten caught… Hmmmm

  30. By Fred’s logic he would let a pedophile babysit his kids as long as it was 4 years ago since the crime. See how whacked out these fraudster are

      1. I don’t have to Google anything more, I have proven that you are in bed with rackeeers, and it doesn’t bother you one bit, you make excuses like all scammers

        1. Andy you go ahead and beat that drum as loudly as you want. I’m willing to bet that the voters of Florida are more concerned with greyhounds that are being injured and killed right now than they are with something that happened to a separate organization over four years ago.

          1. You go ahead and bet then Fred, so we see yet again people, being in bed with FELONIOUS RACKETEERS matters not one bit to Fred, terrorists either for that matter, because it was over 4 years ago. No integrity, no morals, no shame= GREY2K

    1. Only lunatic Fringe weirdos like you Fred, the fact is racketeering is a crime, and you have no problem whatsoever being partners with such scum. Definitive proof of you and your scam outfits lack of integrity. And then of course there is your sister organization ALF. The same applies there. To criminals like you the end jystifies the means.

        1. Then accept John Parker’s debate challenge Fred, I’m sure he would agree to make just that argument. But you won’t accept, because you are a slimy lying coward, you know, like racketeers are

          1. I don’t know John, but from the interactions I’ve had I’d say he’s a lot smarter than to try and convince people greyhound racing isn’t cruel. In fact, he’s even better than you at avoiding the whole issue.

          2. We aren’t avoiding any issue, YOU ARE, that’s why you or anyone else in your scam group are afraid to debate him. Because you are cowards who know he will slam you and your lies will be revealed to all. Like your lie concerning the deaths were revealed yesterday. Friends of racketeers and terrorists, implicated in blackmail. Sure can’t have those truths cpme up in a debate

          3. Fred, I in fact would take the position that Greyhound racing isn’t cruel, and I’ve got my own experiences seeing animal cruelty first hand, along with 83 Greyhound adoption groups, their hundreds of volunteers and their combined experience of hundreds and hundreds of years. We know quite well what is and what isn’t animal cruelty, and our hundreds of years of combined experience in Greyhound welfare tell us that Greyhound racing isn’t cruel. If it were cruel, we’d be at the head of the line arguing for its prohibition.
            All you antis have on the cruelty argument is simply repeating it over and over, and appeals to emotion instead of facts and logic.
            Will Carey be coming back to the discussion to defend his position, or are you his mouthpiece-of-the-moment ?

            John Parker
            Greyhound Adopters for Racing

    2. And now it has been proven that you lied about the deaths being race related, you’re scum. BUT, you being in bed with RACKETEERS is true. We tell truth, you LIE, as always.

    1. Yes we know, we know that you twist like always, distort the truth, LIE, you know FRED, something someone with no integrity, no shame, no morals would do. In other words, something a racketeer would do.

    1. Fred, I’ll take a page out of Justice Potter Stewart’s Supreme Court opinions in obscenity cases. He said that he couldn’t offer a one-size-fits-all definition of obscenity, “but I know it when I see it.”
      I’ve seen animal cruelty, Fred, both as to dogs (including Greyhounds) and horses, and I know animal cruelty when I see it. So do the hundreds of Greyhound adoption volunteers representing a combined hundreds and hundreds of years in both Greyhound welfare and animal welfare, and who are part of the 83 adoption groups who support the continuation of Greyhound racing and are urging Florida voters to vote NO on Amendment 13. That’s a whopping lot of people and experience who have seen animal cruelty and don’t believe Greyhound racing is cruel. I’ll take real life experience of many, many Greyhound people over wordplay and parsing dictionary definitions any day.

      John Parker
      Greyhound Adopters for Racing

      1. Well, first of all, Justice Stewart wasn’t talking about obscenity when he said that. The case before the court dealt with the question of whether a film by Louis Malle called The Lovers was hard core pornography. Here’s the whole quote:

        “I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description [“hard-core pornography”], and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that.”

        Second, the phrase “I know it when I see it” is used when the category is subjective or lacks clearly defined parameters. Surely you would agree that cruelty does not lack clearly defined parameters. There is the dictionary definition, the legal definition and the ethical definition, just to name a few.

        I have to understand your position as clearly as possible, as you do mine, or we really aren’t talking the same language.

  31. Denying greyhounds the thrill of the chase, like you want to do. My definition of criminal is someone who commits a crime like racketeering or blackmail, oh, your side knows all about that, doesn’t it?

  32. Andy, I’d like to talk with John here, so why don’t you just sit this one out? You can go back to calling us racketeers…I’m sorry…RACKETEERS. Besides, your definition of cruelty makes racing irrelevant because greyhounds are just as thrilled chasing balls, frisbees, each other, etc., etc.,

  33. As you wish Fred, I only call you racketeers because you are in bed with them, perhaps I should clarify where your crowd is concerned, no evidence of racketeering in grey2k, only lying and blackmail and association with terrorists.

    Why don’t you surprise us all mightily and accept a live debate with John, not over comments, but in front of a camera? Or at least a microphone.

  34. Well, the short answer is because the state does. Beyond that though, it has to do with purpose and custody. Greyhounds are born with one purpose: to make you money and from the moment they are born they are in the custody of the industry. Everything in their lives revolves around racing. We know that because when they can’t race anymore (at least profitably) they are discarded by the industry. This is a long winded way of saying their entire lives are race related. A dog that dies on the track is just as dead as a dog that dies at the track. Both are victims of the racing industry. To argue otherwise is to make a distinction without a difference

    1. Do you eat beef, pork, chicken?? I bet you do. Greyhounds are treated 100% better than any of those and they aren’t ate. They go to loving homes where they are wanted. To live out the rest of their lives. They are loved by the breeders, then the trainers, then their forever home. I bet no one loved you like that.

      1. I can’t imagine my circle condidting of liars fraudsters and thieves the way these lunatics are. They bully, threaten legitimate businesses steal our sides signs, outright criminals. And they must be stopped.

    2. And a lie is a lie, no matter how you try to spin it, like you lied about the deaths being racing related. As you learned for yourself, I didn’t lie about you being in bed with racketeers

  35. You can spin in anyway you like spin doctor, the fact is you lied about those deaths being race related, you lie about everything. Show dogs are bred for the same reason, just like a cattle ranching, hog farm, chicken farming, fish farming. All bred to make money. You lied plain and simple, just like your lying president, just like lying Thiel, just like your racketeer bed buddies paying a witness to lie. You have no morals, no integrity, no shame. You never did answer the question how many animals were murdered in your endorsed shelters during the month of May. You know Fred, most people are rational, not lunatic Fringe weirdos like you and yours. And thus would stay far away from criminals that your side chooses to be bed buddies with.

  36. Now more evidence of the criminality of Fred’s cohorts, stealing No on 13 signs in the Sanford Orlando area, perpetrated by one Chris Murphy, racketeers, blackmailers, association with terrorists, now thievery. Can’t blame it on 4 years ago this time Fred, liars, fraudsters and thieves, it is obvious which side TRUTH dwells on

    1. 269 injured in 10 years over untold thousands of starts, tell me, oh liar Fred, how many were murdered in your endorser shelters in 10 years, a million perhaps? How much money did grey2scam take in in those 10 years that went straight into the 2 head liars bank accounts, close to a million no doubt. How many lies did grey2scam tell in those 10 years? You know, like the racing related deaths lie you tell up above.

      What isn’t a lie is that 1. Dorchak is a PROVEN liar 2. You are in bed with criminal racketeers 3. Grey2scam have engaged in criminal blackmail in the past . 4. You are aligned with a criminal terrorist organization ons Animal Liberation Front.

      No character, no integrity, zero morals= GREY2K

      1. Trying to change the subject from the pain and suffering of those greyhounds to statistics is pretty mendacious on your part. Especially since all that suffering happened because of your pursuit of profit though exploitation.

  37. The only pain and suffering comes at the expense of the bank accounts of people making donations to your fraud organization so the 2 head liars can live far and happy. Not to mention the poor animals murdered in your endorser shelters that could have been helped by your rackateer friends instead of adding to the millions in their offshore pension plans, proven liar Fred

    1. What are they paying you Fred? I’d be questioning why they aren’t paying you more. Clearly you are working harder than they are. Do you own a house in the Hamptons like they do?

          1. Well, Fred has already proven to be a liar like the rest of them, so anything he says cannot be believed, once a liar always a liar

  38. I just stumbled across this thread, I’m in Australia and recently we have had similar issues with animal groups wanting to end the greyhound industry.

    The reality is the industry is held to the highest accountability and integrity standards of anything related to animals. More so even than horse racing.

    I’m a breeder and owner, the money, effort and care taken with our greyhounds is incredible. I only breed one litter a year and once racing is finished we either keep them or put into our adoption program which actually is short of dogs right now …. there is more demand for greyhound adoption than we can supply.

    I saw some comments above and ask the question, there is no accountability for breeders of other dog breeds, no accountability for dogs that people buy and no longer want so they end up in shelters and are then euthanised. There is no accountability for owners of other dogs breeds and how they are fed, sheltered or exercised.

    I struggle to get my head around all these activists on their high horse (pardon the pun) who want to end an industry that is the only one with any accountability ?

    I will also add a couple of things to think about.

    Alcohol is something we could all live without if needed, like greyhound racing.

    Alcohol destroys people’s lives, drink drivers kill people, drunk people cause domestic violence, killing others including children, or causing injuries and destroying lives ….. so I can never understand why nobody is lobbying to have alcohol banned … why do we accept this ?

    The other thing from an Australian ….. you want to ban greyhound racing but nobody seems overly keen to ban guns in the USA ? Also can’t get our head around this

    Think about the above two examples compared to the perceived issues of greyhound racing …. we really do have our priorities mixed up

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