Farmers, ranchers, sportsmen now oppose dog-racing ban - Florida Politics

Farmers, ranchers, sportsmen now oppose dog-racing ban

A coalition made up of Florida’s farmers, ranchers and sportsmen have teamed up to oppose a proposed constitutional amendment aimed at ending live dog racing in the state, according to a Monday press release.

But a main supporter of the racing ban said their argument doesn’t hold water.

Amendment 13, which would need at least 60 percent approval on the November ballot, would ban betting on greyhound racing by the beginning of 2021.

The coalition — made up of Florida Farm Bureau, Florida Cattlemen’s Association, the NRA, Unified Sportsmen of Florida, Future of Hunting in Florida and Florida Sportsmen United Political Committee — asks Floridians to “consider the impacts on our businesses, our food providers and our rights to hunt and fish, and vote no on Amendment 13.”

“Amendment 13 could have wide-ranging impacts on Florida’s farmers and our ability to provide food for Americans,” said Dr. Liz Steele, a veterinarian in Zolfo Springs, a member of the Florida Farm Bureau and a member of the executive committee for the Florida Cattlemen’s Association.

“I am seriously concerned about adding language like this to our state’s Constitution,” Steele added. “For our farms, for our families, for our dinner tables, vote ‘no’ on Amendment 13.”

Using a previous argument of the Florida Greyhound Association, the coalition notes that the amendment itself says the “humane treatment of animals is a fundamental value of the people of the State of Florida.”

“This type of vague, undefined declaration in Florida’s Constitution is likely to be exploited by activist groups to bring lawsuits against family farms and sportsmen,” the release says.

“Amendment 13 could seriously hinder the rights of Floridians to hunt and fish,” said Bill Marvin, chairman of the Future of Hunting in Florida.

“Adding this language to the Constitution could destroy our culture,” Marvin said. “Not to mention, it would eviscerate our state’s reputation as the Fishing Capital of the World, which draws thousands and thousands of tourists to our waters every year.”

It calls Amendment 13 supporters “extreme animal rights activists who have expressed their desire to shut down family farms and ban hunting and fishing.”

“This amendment is a Trojan Horse,” said longtime Tallahassee NRA lobbyist Marion Hammer. “We cannot be fooled. This is an attack on our rights as Floridians and as Americans.”

Carey Theil, Senior Advisor to the Protect Dogs-Yes on 13 campaign, said greyhound breeders “have lost the debate over whether dog racing is cruel and inhumane.

“As a result, the industry is now trying to fool voters by hiding behind this phony ‘coalition’ which is, in reality, a stalking horse for the greyhound industry,” he said in a statement.

“The Florida Constitution already states that the inhumane treatment of animals is a concern of Florida citizens. Further, the false argument being promoted by these front groups was rejected by the Florida Supreme Court only a few weeks ago.

“In a 6-1 decision, the Court found that the purpose language ‘bestows no rights, imposes no duties, and does not empower the Legislature to take any action.’ ”

215 Comments

  1. Carey, No ONE on our side asked for this “coalition” you are the one that is desperate as you are trying to hang on to the lies that have been exposed to us Floridians. They see you for what you are and you don’t like it. So keep hanging your hat on your fake endorsements from PAID off politicians, paid media, and singers and entertainers who have never experienced a greyhound in their lives. Come November 6th us FLORIDIANS will send you packing back to MA where you need to stay.

    To see ALL of the PRotect Dogs lies debunked got to http://www.supportgreyhounds.org

  2. And once again, I and thousands of others who support greyhound racing are not “breeders”. I guess you would have trouble with that since even your own minions can not tell what a greyhounds looks like, so no surprise there. To see the clueless follower http://supportgreyhounds.org/nag.jpg Pretty much sums up your whole campaign.

    1. That is about as stupid as it gets. She greets a “Greyhound.” It’s a Borzoi for heaven sake – and that woman is typical of what’s leading the charge against Greyhound racing. I would imagine she’s a MeToo’er, too.

        1. The problem is the #metoo movement has gone beyond sexual assault. This is not the forum to discuss that though. This forum is about dog racing and busting the Grey2k and HSUS lies. Carey Theil showed his true coward when he ran from Paint the Trail. #votenoon13 #grey2klies #hsuslies

  3. Carey Thiel says”have lost the debate over whether dog racing is cruel and inhumane.” What debate? you have turned down every challenge to a public debate. If you had confidence in what you say, you would accept a debate. Hopefully one day the media will pick up on your unwillingness to debate.

  4. christine last time trolley car this time your own bus…it would get greyt media……under direction of your senior advisor of course……

  5. From the ill passed “Pregnant Pig Amendment”
    Limiting cruel and inhumane confinement of pigs during pregnancy.—Inhumane treatment of animals is a concern of Florida citizens.

    From AM13
    The humane treatment of animals is a fundamental value of the people of the State of Florida

    BIG difference between a “concern” and “fundamental value”, as others have stated, the latter and the amendment as written, has all sorts of pitfalls that could go well beyond greyhound dogs, and the many dog organizations and other animal organizations recognize this.

  6. Racing greyhounds are the best cared for dogs in North America, these reporters should be talking with people who know something about them, rather than Theil, who knows only how to collect donations and spend them on anything but greyhounds. #LetThemRun#FueledByLove

    1. Really? My adopted greyhound took 1 year to get over severe allergies from the poor quality food. He was skin over bones, so thin his skin split when he bumped against the sofa, and hair falling out in clumps. He looks wonderful now. Emotionally, he will NEVER get over the trauma of being warehoused in sheer bedlam and handled like meat on a leash on a daily basis.

      1. Sounds like your Grey’s food allergy was the exception to the rule. I’ve adopted 7 healthy and well cared for greyhounds and fostered several others with no issues. You also sound like you drank the Grey2k koolaid.

  7. Theil is the only one trying to fool people, he is worried about his pocket book drying up from donations, along with his mentally handicapped wife who tried to kill herself and her dog by jumping in front of a train, tell me how is that protecting dogs when you try to kill them, dont believe their lies VOTE NO ON 13

  8. Carey old sport it seems you find it impossible to comment on these articles without using the word “debate,” as in “greyhound breeders have lost the debate over whether dog racing is cruel and inhumane.”
    Just a question: How can one side “lose a debate” that the other side won’t accept challenges for ? You remind me a bit of the terrier that barks bravely at a bigger dog on the other side of a gate, but when the gate is opened, the terrier runs from further interaction.

    So, just for the record, Carey, how about an open and public debate on Greyhound racing, and we’ll start with your mantra-like claim that racing is “cruel and inhumane”.

    By the way, just curious: how do you decide when to call those who support Greyhound racing “greyhound breeders” and when to call them “dog track promoters” ?

    John Parker
    Greyhound Adopters for Racing
    http://www.greyhoundadopters4racing.com

  9. Answer this Theil, if your group is so concerned about protecting greyhounds why did your organization oppose the Smith/Radar Greyhound Protection Bill SB262? Why is there no provision for the greyhounds in your unfortunate and confusing amendment? Is this how Committee To Protect Dogs plan to protect the greyhounds?

  10. I see the pro racing/PRO animal cruelty of greyhounds trolls are out in full force. Well, guess what? So are we!

    This happens every year in FL and in other states — the lies and distortions about the ugly truth about dog racing: ONE racing greyhound dies every THREE days in FL alone. Does that at all concern you — you who claim to care about greyhounds?

    I’ve personally known Carey Theil and Christine Dorchak of Grey2kUSA since 1999 when I lived in Mass. and learned about the taxpayer subsidized racing industry in that state. Theil and Dorchak have ONLY the best interests of the greyhounds. You who are posting distortions and disparaging remarks apparently have a monetary interest in racing, because it’s ALWAYS about the money.

    I’ve seen how many of the “greyhound rescue groups” have taken a weaponized approach to stopping Amendment 13 from passing. I personally know of a woman who claimed to be an animal lover and greyhound rescuer in the Naples area whose own volunteers ratted her out for severe neglect of the greyhounds — no fresh water, sitting in their own feces, stacked in small cages. Oh yes, she “loved” the greyhounds. Right. She was charged with animal neglect. But public, here’s what you need to know — a lot of these “rescue groups” get a stipend from the TRACKS to take them. So again, follow the money.

    I urge anyone uncertain about the truth to go on Grey2k’s website and to http://www.ProtectDogs.com and read about the TRUTH of dog racing.

    I’m as conservative as a conservative can be, and I support voting YES ON 13! Because politics should have nothing to do with animal cruelty and treating a voiceless animal humanely. #VoteYESon13! This Amendment is going to pass, so start looking for another job.

      1. THe TRUTH you say, that’s funny considering the 70% support lie you put out, considering how you steal pictures, considering that HSUS was fined $15000000 for paying a witness to LIE, oh yes, the TRUTH indeed.

        It isn’t going to pass liar, wait and see

      2. A ‘reputable, classy organization” I guess that’s why they are aligned with terrorist group ALF, because they are so reputable, right? I guess that’s why they have engaged in blackmail in the past, right? I guess that’s why the 2 head liars are exactly that, PROVEN LIARS? Right?

    1. Then you also know Christine is a proven LIAR don’t you, just like you know she is aligned with ANIMAL LIBERATION FRONT, don’t you, just like you know her and Carey pay themselves over 100k a year while giving less than 1% of donations to any greyhound, don’t you? You also know grey2k was implicated in blackmail in W VA, don’t you?

    2. We know that you know Theil and Dorchak because you are spewing their lies. And now you’re making up brand new ones, as if Coleman ever was anything but an Anti Racing freak like you. Can you not use honest statistics, do you really have to trot out the whole every 3 days garbage? We know that you don’t care about greyhound safety because you and your troll friends were not in favour of the safety plan that the industry introduced last year. It’s sickening how you people use greyhounds to pump up your donations, as if any of you ever did anything to help a greyhound. I love your term, though, weaponized adoption groups, that’s us! Except we aren’t the ones making money off the greyhounds without helping them, you and your G$K buddies are. And now you want to destroy the future of racing greyhounds, and put 8000 greyhounds into our adoption system all at once. I’m betting you won’t be volunteering to foster even one! We will not sit idly by while you do that, we will fight for our breed against the haters that would make them extinct.

      1. Are you saying that if these dogs can no longer make their owners any money by racing, they are no good to their owners anymore and will be surrendered to rescues?

      2. Extinction? You’re really grasping at straws now. It’s the oldest breed in existence long before greedy racetrack suppliers got their clutches on them. REPUTABLE breeders rather than cons will always preserve the breed.

    3. She considers herself a good friend to I grid Newkirk or Peta. This is nothing but a peta inspired law and we do not need peta to tell us how to take care of our dogs !!
      PETA kills 95 percent of the animals they come in contact with!!! Gray2k and peta are not friends of dogs or any animal.
      Tell them NO!

    4. sorry but you are just as delusional as they are, you sticking up for a group that has admitted to deceit and lies to further their goal makes you just as sick minded as they are, Dont believe the lies VOTE NO ON 13

    5. April, then why won’t you debate? I’ve even told Carey’s keyboard warrior Freddie Barton that I’d pay his airfare from Lansing, Michigan, still no answer. If you are so “close” to them as you say, then you might know why they fought against tougher safety rules and more stringent injury reporting. Grey2k is running scared as more media outlets and organizations are against amendment 13. #votenoon13

    6. I’m also as conservative as a conservative can be.
      I believed all the lies of Grey2K when we adopted our first greyhound. We’ve adopted 6 so far. After doing some research, I realized that they become such wonderful pets BECAUSE of the way they are raised and trained, loved and cared for.
      NOT in spite of it.
      #VoteNoOn13

    7. So how many greyhounds have you fostered exactly? Over 90 adoption groups are against proposition #13. I’m in the medical field, so I lose nothing if this passes, yet I spend every day educating people on the truth. I have personally fostered over 100 greyhounds with my own money. This CONSERVATIVE spends every weekend out finding homes for this amazing breed. Have been in countless kennels unannounced, and have never once seen any abuse that you anti trolls speak of happening. I love it when you all quote what you have read, or heard, but have never seen.
      You speak of one loser busted for her care of greys that she was fostering. She was turned in by her own group. You dont seem to mention the countless other greyhound adoption groups in the state. She’s the best example you have??? Weak!! I work in the nursing home industry, and the standards the racing industry are held to, are almost as high as healthcare.
      People are able to tour many of the tracks in the state. I suggest people take them up on their offer to educate themselves. Vote No on #13. It has NO business being in our constitution.

  11. These desperate scare tactics are an attempt to resurrect arguments that have already been proven groundless by the state Supreme Court.

    And arguing that Amendment 13 supporters are “extreme animal rights activists” is patently absurd. The Amendment was approved by the state’s Constitutional Revision Commission, and has been endorsed by Mike Huckabee; the editorial boards of the Miami Herald, the South Florida Sun-Sentinel, Naples Daily News, Florida Today, and Fort Myers News-Press; Lara Trump; the Florida League of Women Voters; the Florida Federation of Republican Women, the Animal Law Section of the Florida Bar; former Senate president Don Gaetz; Attorney general Pam Bondi; and the municipal governments of Tallahassee, Margate, Venice, and Hallandale Beach.

    Quite a collection of animal rights extremists there!

    VOTE YES ON 13!

    1. Please name some People and Groups that matter Lara Trump whos Husband is a trophy hunter, Bondi who is a liar and hasnt done her job since day 1. Mike Huckabee that is a known liar, Nice line up of LOSERS

    2. WOW if you are a Florida voter this makes me cringe. Do you know the Supreme Court could only rule on the argument at hand? Any other thing that you desperate activists try and make out of it is pure bunk. They ruled on nothing but the overturn of the lower court ruling, not prohibiting any other animal right litigation in the future.

    3. And how many of those people you named have adopted at least one greyhound?
      Or have any experience with greyhounds?

    4. Oh boy Jeff! Those are some backers to be proud of…
      Lara Tump and Huckabee. Lara fretting over animal cruelty while she shines up hubby’s pretty trophy hunting gun for him. Hypocrisy at its finest. You folks clearly don’t care WHO backs you as long as their name is recognizable.

  12. How in the hell can Carey say that a debate on the cruel and inhumane treatment was lost, when there wasn’t one? What a f–king liar!

  13. No, that’s called crooked politicians who want that casino kickback money. Grey2k is aligned with animal liberation front, I would not call them extreme either, more like TERRORISTS

    1. Then why don’t you debate the No on 13 campaign? Oh that’s right Carey won a debate on cruelty that happened with a 5 year old .

  14. As someone who has long looked to FlaPol as a news source, I have been following this closely, albeit growing somewhat weary of the back and forth from the 2 sides. What I’ve seen is a refusal to debate from the “yes” side, demeaning non profit greyhound adoption groups, and now a senior advisor of the “Vote yes on 13” call this coalition, including our Florida Farm Bureau, phonies. I will be spreading this to everyone I know in this state, as it cements a NO on 13 in my opinion. Where might I find even more information on this animal rights versus animal welfare issue?

  15. April I went to the senior advisors page and the only thing they are interested in is me pressing the donate button! If the senior advisor is a TRUE Dog protector he will drive his campaign bus the 20 miles from where they are at in Panama City Florida to the Ebro dog track to check with the animal abusing trainers and owners on what he can do to help them prepare for Hurricane Michael that will be upon them on Wednesday. Maybe he can sleep in the kennels with them to ensure all dogs are PROTECTED. Chances are the Phony,as he calls all these Hard working tax paying Florida farmers and hunters and fisherman , was one of the first people to gas up and evacuate. Could you or other supporters of his give us a update ?

    1. They can’t Jim, they are traveling the fall on the donors dime for a FL vacation. Neither one of the charlatans lives here, has a business interest here, owns property here, pays taxes here, or makes ANY civic contribution of any kind. Leeches of the highest order.

  16. Once again the social warrior Cary Theil says the debate has been lost these miscreants have never ever debated anything anywhere anytime like they steamrolled thru My home state ant the dim bulbs if which I’m surrounded by here please Florida residents don’t be fooled by these these blow in vagrants to make a simple current analogy they are all part if this movement that tried to lie and cheat their way thru Justice Kavanaugh and his life they are a movement of bums lowlife add nothing to society dolts who add nothing to society but aggravate and wreak havoc
    on everyday working people that their only goal in their life is their selfishness and one sided ways teach these liars a less like what happened to Mr. Kavanaugh THIS IS OUR MOVEMENT NOW STAND UO AND MAKE A DIFFERENCE FOR REASON LOGIC AND COMMON SENSE

  17. Hello. My name is Kelly Faircloth, and I am the President of Greyhound Rescue & Adoptions of Tampa Bay, Inc., also known as GREAT. GREAT was founded in 1993, and while we have always been a small group, we have placed for adoption hundreds and hundreds of dogs in the past 25 years.

    I adopted my first greyhound in January 2001, and since then I have adopted 8 greyhounds and fostered 75. I’ve been to four track kennel compounds, and at least 8 greyhound farms. I’ve pulled thousands of ticks, dealt with untold numbers of fleas, and cried at the condition of many of the farm dogs in particular. I’ve been screamed at by a farm owner who was angry that we told the owner of one of the dogs about the fact that every dog we got from this farm tested positive for tickborne disease. I’ve covered up the word “rescue” on my car so that the kennel owner that was giving me a sick two year old dog, who only lived three more days, wouldn’t get angry because “his dogs didn’t need rescue.” I’ve watched the mixing of the raw denatured, unfit for human consumption meat was mixed up for the dogs to eat. I’ve listened to kennel workers talk about all that is wrong with this industry and why it will never change.

    For those who are convinced that protecting greyhounds means the end of fishing, farming and so on, I hope you realize that if there really is someone “out to get you”, leaving greyhounds to suffer as some sort of barrier island is hardly going to stop them. Hopefully your good sense will come forth on Election Day.

    Also, be aware that many, many people within the minority of existing adoption groups that have stated support for the racing industry will actually quietly vote #YesOn13. They know they have to state support for the industry or keep quiet, or the industry will not give them dogs, but no one can see what they do in the booth and they will vote to protect greyhounds. Because for them, the welfare of the dogs really is their top priority.

    1. So odd that you are the only one to come forward of all of us to report problems – and did you report all these horrific abuses? Fleas and ticks on dogs in Florida? We’ve yet to receive a hound with either. But who did you report this horrific treatment to? At least 90 groups are not having these problems. Where are you taking these dogs to? I know pets who have picked up fleas and ticks – should we outlaw pets in the constitution?

    2. Yea, we know who you are, another supporter of an organization who engages in blackmail and has terrorists friends NRA all the way

    3. Yea, we know who you are, another supporter of an organization who engages in blackmail and has terrorists friends NRA all the way, give us the name and dates of these kennel visits and workers, which you won’t do because youre a liar like your heroes

    4. You’re part in this is merely in revenge against the industry, Kelly. Like others in your position, if YOU can’t get Greys….NO ONE will get Greys. You’re just another disgruntled rescue owner that thought that continuing to bad mouth the folks that were giving you dogs would last forever. They grew weary of your personal views and spews, and decided instead to give their dogs to the many others out there that support them. You see, some people don’t have a need to “rescue” an animal that is merely retiring. Some people don’t have to spin the details of an animals life to feel like a hero. Some people don’t require praise, adulation or a pat on the back. IMO this type of “defect in character brings only temporary satisfication, so one finds themselves embellishing more each time. It’s a sad state of affairs.

  18. Vote Yes on 13!!!!!

    The severe injures and deaths are enough for me to vote YES to end the racing!!!

    All you pro racers have even admitted there are injures and deaths…..
    Why you would support that is beyond me!!
    You say you love the greyhounds?
    You are full of it!!!

    Vote Yes on 13!

    See you at the polls bitches!!!

  19. I half wonder if Steve himself would vote YES on 13. Jennifer too. They’ve no doubt seen the dogs carried off the track, only to be euthanized. For their own good, of course. They’ve heard the stories, too, black tales that trainers and industry peeps only whisper about. Most of the people in this industry have been in it a long, long time, and have seen or heard things that would keep the average person awake at night. Yes, talk all your bluster, say anything you want. But vote YES at the end of the day, and stop this relic of an industry from taking any more lives on and off the track.

  20. We adopted our first Greyhound from GPA two weeks after his last race. He was skin and bones with a thin dingy coat. Most of his teeth were rotten and had to be removed including one of his fangs. He stood next to his new bed for almost an hour trembling before we slowly picked his feet up and placed them on the bed. The physical issues were the “easy” part. The psychological issues took years for him to overcome.
    He was afraid of men. The sight of one on a walk would cause him to completely shut down. He did come to like and trust my brother-in-law, but I’ll never forget the panic attack he had one afternoon when this man he trusted walked into the room carrying a hammer for some repair project. We knew he was scared of brooms and takes, but what caused him to fear a hammer?

    His is just one story and maybe that’s not enough for you to decide, but it’s enough for me.

    1. All of these ” stories”, never, and I mean NEVER any proof, only, I have seen. No police reports ZERO. And I have stated so many rimes, why should anything you people say be believed when your president, second in command and secretary are PROVEN LIARS, not to mention engaging in blackmail and associating with terrorists

      1. Animal abuse is the hardest crime in the world to prove. Just because no one at the track (and who would) doesn’t call the police means NOTHING.

        1. It means there isn’t any abuse, you weirdo vegan lunatic fringe zealots sure are good at lying. Even more proof is the healthy, happy dogs in Paint the Trail videos. Your side are proven liars

    2. For every story like this there are 100 that counter it. Fleas and ticks are common I still fight them at home with all 4 of my pups. The dental issues is not because of neglect. #votenoon13

    3. Heather,
      Sometimes we project our deep ingrained beliefs onto a situation presented before us.
      If I believed that racing Greys are mistreated and neglected then I too, could attribute all kinds of physical and psychological issues to my Greys pasts.
      But because I know the behaviour and quirks of Greys without any preconceived notions, I understand that my girl if not afraid of lazyboy recliners because she was beaten with one. My boy is not afraid of curtains because they were used to mistreat him. My boy prefers men to women NOT because he was abused by one but perhaps because he spent more time around men. It’s YOUR mindset..
      Many dogs fear anything that causes sudden or prolonged noises, perhaps yours was indeed around a hammer in the past. And in doing what hammers do, he decided he didn’t like it or the noises it made.
      You should really get over yourself and learn about dog behaviour because THIS makes you sound rediculous.
      You’ve just accused people who have cared for your boy of abuse….without having any facts. Soooooo wrong.
      Unfortunately, most people with the same anti Racing beliefs as you, do just that. Reason with stories of abuse to explain away their dogs quirks and fears.

    4. Perhaps he was afraid of the person carrying the hammer because he had never seen a person carrying a hammer at the track and the person looked disfigured and the sight frightened him. Perhaps you should consider the situation and response of the dog from the dog’s perspective and not yours.

  21. Why would anyone be threatened by the following statement being in the Florida Constitution: “The humane treatment of animals is a fundamental value of the people of the State of Florida.”

    The Florida Supreme Court has ruled that this statement has no legal teeth.

    I have compassion for, and take pity on, those that cannot support this statement.

    Please vote Yes on Amendment 13 to end the cruelty.

    1. The problem is that the cruelty in the greyhound racing industry is virtually nonexistent. Don’t believe the lies of Grey2k and HSUS. They have fought increasing safety and injury reporting standards in Florida. #votenoon13 #grey2klies #hsuslies

  22. Why do these lobby groups think they know the law better than the Justices of the Florida Supreme Court? What part of “Amendment 13’s fundamental value provision is devoid of any legislative or judicial mandate: it bestows no rights, imposes no duties, and does not empower the Legislature to take any action” don’t they understand. Amendment 13 is about ending the State of Florida’s direct support of this archaic industry; it is about getting the dogs out of cages; it is about these wonderful dogs risking injury and death so that people can play poker. It is time to end this.

    1. You’re wrong it’s about decoupling. It will cost Florida taxpayers $250 – $500 million while only 5 companies that lose money on racing operations benefit. On top of that the dogs are very well cared for and have a higher chance of injury or death playing in a backyard. #votenoon13 #grey2klies #hsuslies

    2. Hmmmmmm…
      Have you read the proposed amendment wording? The one that will actually appear in the constitution? Did the Supreme Court judges write that too? That, my dear is as ambiguous as it gets.

  23. You’re wrong, the amendment is flat out trickeration. You clearly know nothing about how the racing greyhounds live. No greyhound who lives in a cage 24/7 would be in the spectacular shape you see them in, they are athletes in peak condition. They are at no more risk of injury/death than they are as pets; do you want to ban pet ownership in the constitution as well?

  24. I have been to Florida track kennel compounds and Florida greyhound farms, have you? Maybe it looks different from Ontario. And only a circuit court judge thought that, until the Florida Supreme Court said she was wrong.

  25. I have been to Florida track kennel compounds and Florida greyhound farms, have you? And only a circuit court judge thought that, until the Florida Supreme Court said she was wrong. Maybe it looks different from Ontario.

    1. I’ve been to many tracks, to pick up greyhounds that are retiring. I’m well aware of how well the hounds are cared for, but clearly you are not. Are you aware that the NGA greyhounds will be extinct if this legislation goes through? Don’t you care about what happens to them? We will stand ip for our breed, and will not allow anyone to push them to extinction. These hou ds are well cared for and are adopted across the continent when they are done racing. Maybe you and your budfieswiththe deep pickets can focus on the horrific kill statistics in Florida shelters for cats and dogs that are not as highly valued as our NGA hounds.

  26. I am only on here commenting because someone alerted me of a statement made by Heather Young. Which “GPA chapter” and when? Sounds like this chapter needs an investigation and I’m just the person to do it. Please provide specifics and this will be investigated right away, if indeed it is a chapter belonging to our organization.
    Thank you.

  27. This is actually an old argument by the industry and its supporters. I can remember years ago reading what I call the Chicken Little strategy: If greyhound racing ends we’ll all be eating tofu burgers and drinking soy milk! I would encourage anyone who is unclear about the fallaciousness of this argument to Google Reductio ad Absurdum.

    1. That’s right, take the word of PROVEN liars that it’s only about greyhound racing. Take the word of a group that has lied since it’s inception, of a group that has already admitted to fraudulent advertising, of a group that has engaged in blackmail in the past, that is a sister organization to terrorists, not to mention take the word of rackateering HSUS.

      I, and most every one else I know prefer to trust in the words of honest, all American groups such as American Kennel Club, NASCAR, and the NRA. Ask yourself if the Yes side was offering up truth instead of lies, why does not even ONE of them take up the debate challenge by John Parker.

      For the most part the Yes side are extremists lunatic fringe vegan.

      Just in the last 2 days we have seen yet another trying to explain away the 90 adoption groups who KNOW the truth with the invisible NGA email. That is all these people know, lies and fraud.

          1. You’re seriously suggesting that six of the seven Justices of the Supreme Court of Florida took bribes to rule the way they did? Is that what you are saying? It’s interesting how everyone who disagrees with you has been paid off, but everyone who agrees with you is a paragon of virtue. I’m sensing a pattern there.

          2. Casino interests have very deep pockets, no doubt judges take bribes all the time, you live in Michigan, what the hell do you know about Florida justices.

            And yes, I think everyone who agrees with us are paragons of virtue as opposed to being terrorists, blackmailers, rackateers and proven liars. That’s how any sane person sees it, weirdo vegan lunatic fringe weirdos aren’t sane.

        1. Freddie I seen that your boy Carey told another lie in the article. So when did the “debate” take place? Who did he “debate”? My guess is that he debated a 4 year old on September 31.

  28. If you are in favor of thousands of Florida citizens losing their jobs so that an activist group can raise its profile, then by all means vote yes.

    1. You forgot to mention that most of those jobs are part-time, low-wage, no-benefits jobs. You also forgot to mention that in other states that ended racing, agencies from the state on down stepped in to assist those people in transitioning out of racing. There’s no reason to believe the same wouldn’t happen in Florida.

      1. So in other words let the taxpayers pay for that along with the extra $250 – $500 million and no funds reserved for the care and placement of the dogs. Typical Grey2k response. How do you know what kind of jobs these are Fred?

        1. Not sure where you’re getting your numbers. As for the people, the industry figures I’ve seen say about 5000 people are employed across the state. That number could be dealt with by existing re-training and employment agencies. In Iowa, the casinos paid for re-training and hired many race workers into other areas of gambling, like dealers and so on. As for the dogs, the industry might be asked to assist in caring for them as groups moved to get them out, but since you always say the welfare of the dogs in number one to you, that shouldn’t be too much of a burden, right?

          1. Like I said, let the burden be on others while Grey2k just walks away doing nothing. Typical Grey2k response.

          2. Fred,
            Your lack of concern or interest as to the consequences of this amendment passing aren’t surprising. You’re only about a win. It’s not an effing game, boy. Does it make you feel all big and powerful?
            What will you move on to next to destroy others lives by deceit?

          3. “Funds reserved for placement of the dogs”? Why are these dogs abandoned once they no longer make their owners any money? Are you saying they are useless if not racing? If they are beloved why are they entering the rescue system at all? It seems to me this entire industry is about exploiting this breed for money then dumping them into an already overburdened rescue system who perpetuate the myth that one dog has more value than another.

      2. You always forget to mention you are a proven liar and secretary of a group who has been implicated in blackmail in the past and is a sister organization to Terrorist ALF, don’t you proven liar Fred?

  29. First of all, we have no expertise in the retraining and employment of those who will leave racing, so staying away from that part is a good thing. Second we will be involved in the safe relocation of greyhounds. You can bet on that.

    1. We all know that and I call bullshit that Grey2k will help, if it passes. They didn’t help in Massachusetts, Arizona or Wisconsin.

      1. I meant that we all know that Grey2k won’t help retrain the workers unless they want to be liar or thieves.

  30. I understand why you have to make this personal, and why you can’t imagine anyone doing something for purely altruistic reasons, but that doesn’t excuse you refusal to speak to the fundamental issue of Amendment 13: The inherent cruelty of greyhound racing.

    1. Mr Barton- Havng been reading a few of the comments, I would like to hear what in fact grey2k did for the dogs in MA. Ariz and Wi. I’m in Illinois and I heard of no help for the relocation of dogs at dairyland came from grey2k. Maybe you’d know more about that? If not, then I would assume the same level of follow through from you in Fl. Except there will be 10 times as many dogs looking to be rehomed. A daunting task for anyone.

          1. Racing no longer exists in those states. Greyhounds that were trapped in racing gulags have moved on to lives as loved pets. I’d say that’s something.

          2. And I say you’re full of shit! The greyhounds love to run and you took that from them in those States with your lies and manipulation! Grey2k did NOTHING financially to help the displaced dogs and if 13 passes they’ll do NOTHING financially for with displaced dogs!

        1. Ok, so that answers my question. You helped free them but in no way assisted I’m re homing them physically or financially. So I think it’s a safe bet that you’ll do nothing to assist in FL either with 10 times as many dogs. In my eyes, that puts all these dogs at a much greater risk than where they are now. No way adoption groups can cover that many. Thanks for helping me decide. VOTE NO ON 13, if you want these dogs taken care of as best as possible.

          1. Just want to jump in here to a conversation I’m not part of. (Obviously you all know each other–either through this battle or more.) Your argument, Jim, is that there will be a glut of homeless dogs to rehome if racing is shut down. So, my question to you is: Is it much better for dogs and “shelters” to keep breeding these animals, breaking them, using, and often abusing them for profit and then throwing them away to “shelters” (some of which I have serious questions about) and keep that broken dog train going forever? Is there profit in a continuous stream of broken dogs? Is that what’s at stake here?

        2. Hey Fred, I heard from a reliable source that 80% of Gillum’s voters are voting no on all of the amendments including 13.

          1. So what does Gillum have to do with this? Some of you just seem to want to vote for cruelty because that’s the team you’re on. Doesn’t that seem a little childish? It does to me.

    2. If it was done for purely altruistic reasons, then tax returns wouldn’t show the 2 head liars paying themselves over 100k a year while giving a mere pittance to any adoption group, right proven liar fred?

      1. If we keep all this money for ourselves, why have we been so successful at getting laws passed, educating people to the cruelty of greyhound racing, and more relevant to you, helping to get 13 on the ballot?

        1. Fred lying, manipulation and theft is not educating the public. What the No on 13 campaign is doing is educating the public with the truth, busting all of the Grey2k and HSUS lies. You were successful by paying politicians and Supreme Court judges off to keep 13 on the ballot.

          1. OK. First we’re bribing everybody, up to and including the Justices of the Florida Supreme Court–which I would assume requires a lot of money, then we’re keeping all the money for ourselves. Which is it Andy? You can’t have it both ways.

          2. I didn’t say you bribed supreme court judges, I said casino interests did, they are just using you to fool the voters. Again, if you don’t keep most for yourselves, why do the tax returns prove that is the case?

        2. Because you bribe politicians with some here and there, if you don’t keep most of it for yourselves, why do tax returns clearly show they pay themselves over 100k a year, plus no doubt they get more for lobbyist fees, it is right there in the tax returns proven liar Fred, you don’t educate anyone, you lie, as the fact that you stiel and dorchak are proven liars proves.

          1. And let’s not forget blackmail proven liar fred, your scam group is on record blackmailing, and a group that engages in blackmail certainly doesn’t mind bribes, right proven liar fred?

          2. Perhaps The rackateers, you know HSUS bribed the judges, because the money they scam from people makes grey2k look like the JV squad, you remember that’s what your hero Obama called ISIS, before trump destroyed them that is

  31. Cruelty is an indictable offence, is it not? If NGA Greyhounds are suffering from cruelty as you suggest, why on earth has the law allowed this to continue? People like yourself must have reported this time and again, no? Did the law not investigate or did they not find any basis to such claims? Genuinely would like to know.

    1. There is no enforcement of cruelty laws to speak of. Never has been…not on a scale that can make a difference. You could help by insisting that cruelty laws are enforced.

      1. NH, what part of there is no cruelty tolerated in the greyhound racing industry don’t you understand? The dogs are kept in crates that are double the size of the largest crate commercially available. They eat better at the farms and kennels than my dogs do at home. The breeding is planned based on several factors, unlike puppy mills. The dogs love to run. #votenoon13 #grey2klies #hsuslies

        1. Please. Cruelty is inherent in using animals for sport and profit. Don’t insult my intelligence. These animals are not cared for. They’re used. When they break, they’re thrown away to unknown futures. Time to shut it down.

          1. If only there were some intelligence to insult.
            To say that Greyhounds, who are expected to bring in big money are not cared for is donkey talk.
            If a dog is abused and neglected it will not perform, it will not bring in profit. Fact.
            They’re “thrown away to unknown futures”
            What a bizarre statement.
            I suppose a profitable $2500 purebred poodle pup’s future IS known? Are you against the average breeder too?
            Do you know that many, many owners and trainers of NGA Greyhounds are still in contact with the adopter of their Grey?
            Ya know..because they never loved or cared for their dog. SMH.

      2. Oh really, and Scam Bondi stood up there and said she has prosecuted thousands of cruelty cases, like Dorchak, can’t have it both ways, liar

  32. Imagine a society in which a bunch of men get together to fight for their right to harm things and cause immeasurable suffering through human cruelty. I thank God every day that I wasn’t the child of one of these people.

    1. Yes, that sounds atrocious. Guess I should consider myself fortunate to be a gentle and kind woman with my very own critical thinking skills. Amen! Vote NO.

  33. #YesOn13 all the way! No “coalition” of the worst of the worst is going to fool me nor stop humane Floridians! These scumbags are all about exploiting animals and making their lives miserable. #YesOn13, baby!

  34. I’ve read a lot of comments – can’t say it’s helping the No-camp a bit to talk about who is going to pay for rehoming and caring for these dogs. Makes it pretty obvious once these money makers can’t run they’re deemed useless by their owners and breeders and sent packing.

    1. It’s not about the money to rehome the dogs. It’s the fact that there will be no place to put them. Where do you put upwards of 10,000 dogs in a short period of time? The anewer is nowhere. VOTE NO ON 13, and leave them in the expert care of their trainers. This whole situation is only partly about the dogs. The properties want to expand into casinos on the property . Basically a large expansion of gambling in FL that no one wants. This ammendment will allow it to happen.

      1. So all these dogs are bred to train and then make money racing and then they are sent off to rescue as natural course of this sport? Good grief! Get rid of this once and for all and get these dogs out of this exploitation pipeline for good.

        1. So let me get what you’re saying correctly. You’d rather countless thousands would be displaced, many of whom surely would go to kill shelters, rather than have them stay in their current homes and going to specialist adopters bit by bit as they are now where they all find homes. Let me ask you a question. Where is the humanness in that? Is that seriously what you advocate for? Because that’s what it amounts to.

          1. Why would the owners of these dogs they swear they love so much send them to kill shelters? Won’t they pay for them to be taken care of until adopted? Aren’t these dogs their responsibility? Oh…I guess if they’re not making them money anymore why should they pay for their continuing care…That’s exactly why this industry needs to be shut down. You’re current funneling of useless dogs from racetrack to rescue is already bogging down and contributing to an overpopulation problem. I never realized so many dogs were being used for profit and discarded – 10,000 dogs! Definitely vote YES.

      2. It’s not a short period of time, and it’s not 10,000 dogs. Racing will be phased out by 2020 if 13 passes, and some dogs will go to other tracks to race, some to farms for breeding. A network of adoption agencies all over the country stand ready to take discarded dogs, that is if the industry will take advantage of them.

        1. And yet Grey2k and the HSUS will do NOTHING financially to help the greyhound adoption groups. Just like all of the other states.

          1. You know, I find it interesting that you’re always on us about how we don’t help the dogs, yet this farmers ranchers and sportsmen group suddenly shows up, takes your side and they’re the greatest thing since sliced bread.
            Up until today what have they done to help the industry? Promote it? no. Worked to increase attendance at races? no. Helped it reach larger audiences? No. In fact they have done nothing except agree with you, for self serving reasons.
            You need better friends.

          2. See Fred you have it wrong once again. They are the ones in the stands buying the product and most importantly they are seeing through Grey2k’s lies.

          3. Just look at the Grey2k tax reports on their page. They do not help the dogs but they line their pockets and why are they not a 5013c? Makes you wonder doesn’t it? I know that my dog raced in Tuscon and was sent to Caliente after Grey2k went thru there and got them to close. My dog was a grade A racer too! Mr Barton you need to stop with saying you guys are going to help because your track record (no pun intended) says otherwise just ask the people in Arizona and Massachusetts! I do not understand why Floridians want out of state lobbyists to tell them how to run their state. NO ON 13

          4. ” You need better friends” says the proven liar with phone numbers of terrorists in his cell phone, what hilarity

          5. I bet you’re an atheist aren’t you Fred? Would explain the lack of morality, character, and integrity. Being a proven liar isn’t indictive of morals

  35. Wow, you really are clueless. My point is that those dogs will not be allowed to stay on that property, so regardless of money, there WILL be no place to take them. That’s why there is no plan via this amendment to take the dogs to whether the owners pay or not. What about this do you not understand? This amendment is not for the betterment of the dogs at all but people like you and groups like grey2k do not care about this. No need to reply, it’s like taking to a 3 year old!

  36. You are right. Greyhounds do love to run. Chasing a mechanical lure around a track while placing their lives in danger so you can make a buck though? Ah, not so much. I understand, given your occupation why you think money is the be all and end all of helping, but there are a lot of other ways to help as well. Ever hear of volunteering your time?

  37. “Why are these dogs abandoned once they no longer make their owners any money?”
    Precisely because they are no longer making their owners money.

    “Are you saying they are useless if not racing?”
    Yes.

    “If they are beloved why are they entering the rescue system at all?”
    See answer to question one.

    “It seems to me this entire industry is about exploiting this breed for money then dumping them into an already overburdened rescue system who perpetuate the myth that one dog has more value than another.”
    It’s not a myth in the industry. If a dog makes money it is by definition more valuable than a dog that doesn’t.

  38. You’re being naive Craig. Look at their reasoning: If greyhound racing ends, they’ll come after us next. You think they care about you? Nope. They see a threat to themselves. If 13 doesn’t pass and racing dies a natural death in a few years because no one comes to the track (which it will) you won’t hear a peep from them.

    1. If racing were to “die a natural death”.
      You know that would be far more manageable than what your after. Petering off vs a very limited time frame. Come on man, surely you’re smarter than this.
      I don’t fault any group that has come forward against this Amendment. Nor do I care if they have any concern about the Greyhounds. Obviously, they worry about their own futures and what this could possibly mean for them. And they SHOULD! They are spreading the word, that is ALL the Greys need.

      1. Yeah. Coming to work some day and finding out the track is closed. That’s much better than a phased controlled ending that you know is coming. We’ve seen how a natural death occurs in other states: chaotically, without warning and haphazardly.

        1. That’s clearly a different beast altogether, Fred.
          But now that you bring it up, please explain this
          “phased, controlled ending” and the specifics on how that will look. Obviously, there’s a game plan that only your privy to.

          1. Sure. It’s no secret. In fact there’s ample precedent for it in places like Arizona, Wisconsin and in the case of the blood donor dogs, Texas. It works like this: The industry decides which dogs it wants to give up and which it wants to continue to take advantage of by moving them to other tracks or back to the breeding farms; then a network of adoption groups step in to oversee the care and transportation of the dogs out of the kennels to foster homes, or safe facilities. Our network is capable of moving dogs from as far away as China to safety in places like here in Michigan and all over the country. With the timeline 13 gives, and if the industry cooperates, we can do it.

          2. Fred, your network is doing nothing but lying to put people out of a business they love doing. Everyone is seeing through the lies and the FACT that Carey won’t accept the debate challenges issued by the industry. The owners and operators are united along with 90 adoption groups, AKC, UKC, NRA and several other organizations against 13. Let’s not forget that if 13 passes it could cost Florida taxpayers $250 -$500 million in reparations and legal fees while only 5 companies benefit.

        2. Except it isn’t dying proven liar fred, they never mention ADW money, Hey, proven liar fred, you never did answer the question about where the money for the 78k super at derby came from if it’s so ‘ dying”.

          Sanford promotes their product and is doing very well. You can believe nothing these liars say

          1. Andy we’ve had this discussion before. If racing isn’t dying why are tracks closing all over the country? Why are track owners trying to get out from under racing? Why does racing need subsidies to stay afloat? Why did it cost Florida over $3 million more to oversee racing than it brought in revenue?

          2. That is your lies, proven liar Fred. Why is racing thriving in W VA, you know, where grey2k was implicated in blackmail. Why does Sanford, Palm Beach and others who promote it do so so well? Why did Iowa’s handle rise this year, the action has simply moved online. Southland does really well too, again I ask, where did the money for the 78k super come from if it is dying

            Tell me proven liar fred, do you go to ALF meetings with your proven liar friends?

  39. Except proven liar fred and his proven liar friends give little to nothing to help adoption agencies, they keep the money for themselves. Look at their tax returns on paint the trail and see for yourself.. These people are in bed with rackateers and terrorists, no sane person believes anything they say, blackmailers they are too. Now AFL-CIO has come to our side, you’re going to lose big proven liar fred.

  40. So, let’s say that Amendment 13 passes… It only effects “commercial racing associated with wagering”, right? Therefor, hobby greyhound racing could continue, correct? The dogs could still live in kennels as they do now. They would still be fed the same diet. They could still race behind a mechanical lure as they do now, right? And the only difference would be that it would no longer be regulated and inspected by the DBPR? So, there would be no governmental oversight. No urine testing. No death reporting. No need to specify where the dogs go when they are no longer racing. Is that correct? Are these people obligated by law to surrender the dogs should Amendment 13 pass? Can’t they keep them and keep racing them, as long as there isn’t betting being done on them?

    1. It has nothing to do with abuse, because that is a lie. It has everything to do with tracks becoming mini casinos. look who is putting all the money into fighting 3, the owner of Mardis Gras and Naples dog tracks. They can’t tellthe people the truth, so they enlist the aid of rackateers, blackmailers and friends of terrorists to fool the voters, grey2k and their ilk are fraudsters, always have been.

      More proof of this is that the tracks still want simulcast money from betting on tracks outside the state, the first draft of 13 had no betting at all on dog racing, but the tracks objected so they changed it. That shows the fraud of the whole thing. If racing is cruel in Florida, why isn’t it cruel everywhere else? It is a SHAM

    2. You missed one big thing: No one could make money off of the dogs. You think the industry is in it for fun? If that’s true why haven’t tracks opened in states that only outlawed betting on greyhounds?

      1. You mean all the states except Idaho Fred, and you like to lie 40 states have banned racing when only the betting is banned

      2. Thank you Fred. So, the tracks could still choose to run these races should Amendment 13 pass, as long as there isn’t wagering on it? And the dogs could still live as they do now? Just without regulations and wagering?

        1. The tracks will shutter racing operations if this passes and no revenue can be generated from racing. The amendment hides decoupling and doesn’t care one bit about the greyhounds. In other words don’t believe Freddy’s bs. He lives in Michigan and has bo clue about how the racing industry operates.

      3. So by proven liar fred’s comment, cattle ranching should be shut down because money is made off cattle, same as fish farms, chickens farms, horse racing too. Then thery say the amendment only pertains to greyhound racing, do you people see the lies in action, all they do is lie. Something will have to be targeted next to ensure the money keeps rolling in.

        They have no problem being aligned with terrorists and rackateers, they exploit greyhounds for money, not racing. Criminals have no morals at ALL

          1. No Fred it’s not a false equivalency. By your words farmers use animals for income and then they are slaughtered, at least a greyhound doesn’t get slaughtered when it no longer produces. Google hypocrite and Grey2k, HSUS and PETA pop up.

  41. Come on Andy, there are only 17 tracks left in the country. I can’t even remember when the last track opened, can you? Does that sound like a thriving industry to you? So you find some tracks that are doing better than most, so what? The last person to drown when the Titanic went down still drowned,

    1. And the last lie you told is just like the first, still a lie proven liar Fred

      The tracks that promote their product do well, simple as that, that’s not dying

  42. Come on Andy. In the last decade more than half the tracks in the country have closed (including some in Florida). Even allowing for the few that were closed by the states they were in, that still leaves an awful lot. Are you telling me none of those tracks knew how to “promote their product?” And what does that even mean? In Fiscal Year 2016, the total amount gambled on live racing at Florida dog tracks was $87,003,278. This amounts to a decline of 56.6% since 2006. Sounds like a bigger problem than promotion and anyway, if Sanford is doing such a good job of promoting their product, why aren’t the other tracks following their lead?

    1. Fred you fail to mention the simulcast handle that the tracks bring in which significantly impacts their revenue. Simulcasting has both helped and hurt the racing industry. Internet gambling has also helped the racing industry. I know this for a fact.

      1. You really think simulcast will save you? Last time I checked simulcast betting on greyhound racing was only legal in about 10 states. I don’t see that being a growth market.

        1. That’s because of archaic laws thanks to the horse racing industry, hence where you get your banned in 40 states lie from. Did you see that the afl-cio endorsed a NO vote on 13 today?

    2. Yet ANOTHER lie proven liar Fred, we have already shown the real number at 3 track alone is $250000000 MORE. You continue to distort the truth, or LIE as it is more commonly known. Also people from other countries add to the handle by placing wagers online. I ask AGAIN, where did the money for the 78K super at Berby come from if it is so dying?

      Says a lot when you fail to answer such questions, of course you do so because it further exposes your lies, but then that is what proven liars do, don’t they.

      Our endorsements from HONEST ALL AMERICAN groups keeps growing, NASCAR, NRA, AKC, UKC, now AFL-CIO. And you have rackateers, terrorist criminals, and of course whacko lunatic fringe extremists and hypocrites. No doubt you proven liars are getting desperate, you are never going to approach 60%, NRA and Gillum voters will win it for us alone

      1. OK Andy, I’m going to assume you got your zeros messed up. You’re saying just three tracks took in $250 million when betting on live racing in the entire state in 2016 was only a little over $87 million according to the Division of Pari-Mutuel Wagering 76th Annual Report. If you look at trends it’s pretty obvious 2018 will be even less than that.

        1. No zeros messed up, what you are talking about is live handle, as per the research done by Mr Ciampa, 3 tracks alone had $250000000 MORE in ADW wagering, but you knew that already, you’re just trying to distort again. Tell you what proven liar fred, go to trackinfo.com, and compute the handle for a week at Sanford, Derby and Palm Beach, see what you get, multiplied by 52m FAR more than your $87000000, you’re such a liar

          1. Good ole Fred can’t distinguish the difference between handle and revenue. He’s also forgetting the simulcast handle that these tracks do on other dog and horse tracks, which translates into $$$ for the state.

          2. Well, that little bit of statistical legerdemain by Mr. Ciampa, while impressive, is somewhat in dispute, much as your 95% adoption rate. But I will agree that the figure I quoted you did not include ADW amounts.

            Which brings me back to my original questions: if three tracks can bring in $250 million in off site betting, why are tracks closing? Why are track owners trying to get out of the business? Why aren’t new tracks opening to try and cash in on the windfall?

  43. Gee Craig, with all that money pouring into the state coffers it’s odd that, according to the Spectram Report, it cost the state $3 million more to oversee racing than it brought in revenue. Odd don’t you think?

    1. Only 4 of the 11 tracks lose money on racing operations. We all know that states aren’t the best money managers with all of the red tape. For example,but look at how much the State of Michigan wastes on your salary or how much Michigan taxpayers are on the hook for lawsuits related to Larry Nasser.

        1. It will take me some time because I’ve read it from several reliable sources. By the $250 million understatement of handle by the HSUS even if that is money bet on the signal which the track probably gets 2%, which is $8 million in revenue to Florida. Now if the understatement is on live handle then that number is significantly higher. Mind you that is a sample of just 3 tracks. #votenoon13 #grey2klies #hsuslies

    1. Proven liar Fred, it is the same, using animals for profit, and it does say in the Bible Fred, man has dominion over animals, but no doubt you don’t believe in that, for I doubt you’ve ever read one, but instead of being slaughtered, they have a 98% adoption rate, which I’m sure the cattle would enjoy.

      As far as you casting doubt on our 98% adoption rate, when you can provide us with evidence of our side, or our supporters, being rackateers, you know, $15000000 for paying a witness to lie, or grey2k’s specialty blackmail, or us having terrorists phone numbers in our cell phone, then, and only then do you accuse us of dishonesty, there proven liar fred, say goodnight to a couple of your terrorist friends for me.

      AFL_CIO< AFL-CIO 🙂

        1. No bluffing here, like I said show proof of past criminal behavior like runs rampant on your side proven liar Fred, I’ve said it before and I will say it again, We have NASCAR, NRA< AKC and more, Never has there been any rackateering, blackmail, or any such criminal behavior on our side, unlike you and the rest of proven liars, rackateers and terrorists, and blackmailers.

          Why don't you google Marion Hammer. animal liberation front and see if there is a picture of her on the terrorist website, which there isn't of course, but there is of Christiner Dorchak, isn't there proven Liar Fred? NASCAR never been fined millions of dollars for rackateering either, but your bed buddies can't say that, can they Fred. ALL the documented fraud and criminal behavior is on YOUR side, not ours, because we are on the side of TRUTH, and you are on the side of DECEIT. Truth will win out, just watch

  44. Everyone notice how nothing more is being said about that NGA email sent out threatening adoption agencies, that’s because there was no such email, they never have any proof for their claims, just keep on lying……..

  45. Well, actually you did say that we bribed Supreme Court Justices, or at least inferred it, but I’m glad to see that you’ve avoided the larger issue of how we keep all the money for ourselves while giving it away as bribes by simply ignoring the contradiction. Sort of like you do with the issue of cruelty.

    1. Well Fred cruelty isn’t an issue in the greyhound racing industry, because when it happens it is quickly dealt with. Now we all know that Carey won the debate that happened on September 31 with a 4 year old. Go back to your duties as the secretary of the Justin Bieber fan club.

        1. And that’s exactly what Grey2k and HSUS do. They exploit the dogs for donations with lies. Thank you for clarifying that.

          1. I figured you’d want to change the subject. Dogs dying and being injured on the track versus people giving us money to stop dogs from dying and being injured on the track. Doesn’t sound like quite the same thing does it?

        2. Sure is too bad your larcenous crowd keeps the great majority of that money to fund vacations and such instead of say, helping real shelters, that’s right HSUS says they do that but of course don’t, being RACKETEERS and all. Did I spell it right that time Fred?

    2. Well Fred as I said Carey won the debate that happened on September 31st with a 4 year old. We all know that there is no tolerance for cruelty in the greyhound racing industry. There are more instances of cruelty in Monroe County, Michigan in one year than there has been in the greyhound racing industry in the last 10 years. So until Carey is willing to accept the debate challenges issued of the experts he needs to quit spreading the lies.

  46. And we all see how you cannot disprove the FACT that your 2 head liars pay themselves over 100k a year while giving a pittance to any adoption agency. Let me rephrase, your scam group keep THE GREAT MAJORITY of money for themselves, you spend more on phone lines than adoption agencies proven liar Fred, it’s right there in the tax returns.

    Show some police reports to prove all this abuse, which you can’t do of course because it’s a lie, exactly like that invisible NGA email, just saying it dpesn’t make it true, that’s why Kavenaugh is on the Supreme Court.

    I’m still waiting for you to show evidence of blackmail, rackateering and association with terrorists where NASCAR, NRA, or AKC is concerned, but we can certainly prove this with your side, can’t we proven liar Fred?

  47. And grey2k exploits greyhounds for donations, so the cruelty is on your side just like blackmail, rackateering and terrorist friends

  48. Hey Fred, go take a look on tracking.com at race 9 at Daytona last night, super paid over 16k, that’s on ONE race. Again I ask, where does the money for payoffs like that come from if racing is dying?

      1. Once AGAIN you are WRONG. The trifecta is based on the $$$ bet Fred. The more you talk the more you look like a village idiot.

    1. That needs to be looked into, without racing there would be no poker room.

      Just like you have no answer to why should anything your side says be believed when the top 3 of grey2k are proven liars.

      Hey, proven liar Fred, did you see the picture of your fellow proven liar Sonia, you know, the polo hypocrite in the picture with the winning dog in a race.? Just goes to show the hypocrisy of you criminals.

      Just like you have no answer as to where are the racketeering or blackmail charges for NRA or NASCAR?

        1. Proven liar fred there licking the same old mule, everyone notice how he doesn’t comment on the hypocrisy of his fellow liar Sonia being exposed for the hypocrite she is.

          Also notice how he never comments on no racketeering or blackmail or association with terrorists on our side. The biggest danger for the side of truth is the uninformed voter for like sheep they believe the propaganda without seeking the truth for themselves, 9 out of 10 who learn the truth will vote no, except the lunatic fringe weirdos but they are a very small minority.

          Hey proven liar fred, you never did tell us if you were an atheist? I say yes

    2. That’s why they have been trying for decoupling, especially the ones that lose money on racing operations. You know that there is only one horse track left in Michigan and they are closing in 2020, because the land is worth more than the business. Had the casinos allowed slots at the horse tracks they would still be in business here in Michigan.

        1. Hey, proven liar Fred, head on over to Paint the Trail and watch your proven liar second in command run away from the truth deliverer at his miniscule rally today, in Wizard of Oz it’s the cowardly lion, Carey Stiel is the cowardly liar. You scammers aren’t used to your lies being called out in public, are you?

  49. Good morning proven liar fred, now the Republican Party has come out officially against 13, seems the BIG MO is on the side of TRUTH.

    That was a pitiful gathering you had for your little rally yesterday, and, like the cowards ya’ll are, Carey ran away and started crying in the bus

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