Guest Author
The long-standing view that government cannot take your property, without fairly compensating you for that property, dates back to the Magna Carta. This foundational principle can be found in Blackstone’s “Commentaries on the Law of England” as well as in Sir John Locke’s “Two Treatises on Government.”
The writings of Locke, in particular, heavily influenced our Founding Fathers. Therefore, it is no surprise that Locke’s property rights views found their way in to the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution which proclaims that no person shall “be deprived of life, liberty or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.”
In light of this bedrock legal principle, the State of Florida must now deal with the legal consequences of passing the constitutional amendment banning greyhound racing. When the amendment is fully implemented up to 10,000 people will lose their livelihood and up to 15,000 racing greyhounds will be retired. All of the property used in the greyhound racing industry (including the racing dog themselves) will be rendered valueless as a result of the passage of the amendment.
In 2015, the U.S. Supreme Court in Horne v. Department of Agriculture held that the Takings Clause of the Constitution doesn’t just apply to real property — it also applies to personal property. This means that racing greyhound dog owners are entitled to “just compensation” for their dogs. Greyhound race tracks are entitled to just compensation for their tracks, grandstands and tote boards. Greyhound kennel operators are entitled to just compensation for their kennels. When the state puts someone out of business — there are financial consequences.
The State of Florida has been down this path before. When the voters passed a constitutional amendment in 1994 to ban net fishing more than 15,000 fill net fishers were put out of business. Realizing its financial obligation to the fishermen, the Florida Legislature passed the “Net Ban Assistance Program” which included $20 million to buy back nets, millions of dollars for job training, and millions more to compensate fisherman for lost income.
Eight years later the voters of Florida passed the “Pregnant Pig” amendment which prevents confinement of pigs during pregnancy. Steve Basford, one of two pig farmers in Florida that were essentially put out of business by the amendment filed suit to recover compensation for his personal property that was rendered useless when the amendment passed. Ultimately, the State of Florida paid Mr. Basford more than $1 million as just compensation for his losses.
Now the state has an obligation to compensate racing greyhound owners and others financially harmed by passage of the greyhound amendment. Just compensation for the taking of property is a long-standing legal principle in our country.
It is not optional — it is constitutional.
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Jeff Kottkamp is an attorney with more than 30 years’ experience. He is also an Adjunct Professor at the Florida State University College of Law. From 2007 to 2011, Kottkamp served as Florida’s 17th Lt. Governor.
121 comments
Cogent Observer
March 4, 2019 at 12:32 pm
The owners of the former racers may keep the dogs–as long as they care for them properly and humanely. Accordingly, they are not having “property” taken from them. If they do not care for them properly and humanely, they are not entitled to keep them. Depending on the circumstances, they may even be violating the law. As such, they are not entitled to compensation. It is analogous to the concept of civil forfeiture whereby a person who commits a heinous act is not entitled to retain the fruits of that act, however valuable those fruits may be. All that these people may be losing is the “opportunity” to earn money by placing greyhounds in danger of injury without regard to what will happen to them when they can no longer race for the entertainment of people who similarly do not seem to care about the long-term welfare of the dogs. That “loss” is not within the ambit of the property rights discussed in this article.
Terry
March 4, 2019 at 1:36 pm
your not very cogent, sounds like you have fecal incontinence with that BS
Elaine
March 4, 2019 at 4:38 pm
You seem to miss a pertinent point – the value of the dogs is reduced from thousands of dollars to pretty much zero due to government action, which took away all value. That requires compensation.
Possession has nothing to do with it in this case and in the cases cited where the people still owned the farm, equipment, etc, but it was rendered useless for its purpose.
Joe
March 7, 2019 at 7:39 pm
Is there really any need to respond to a guy with a reputation like this? Nice Job Professor Barton. How does it feel to know your students feel the same way about you as everyone in the greyhound racing industry does?
https://www.koofers.com/michigan-state-university-msu/instructors/barton-271247/
Joe
March 7, 2019 at 7:51 pm
I encourage everyone in the greyhound racing industry to contact the administration at Michigan State in order to bring their full attention to “Professor” Barton’s record as an instructor. He has certainly “abandoned” his duty to educate students who are paying exorbitant amounts in tuition dollars. He won’t mind if you put your nose into his business. Maybe he should invest some time learning how to become an educator and stop wasting time on his computer being a cowardly keyboard warrior.
https://www.koofers.com/michigan-state-university-msu/instructors/barton-271247/
Craig Laginess
March 4, 2019 at 12:48 pm
The Florida taxpayers were duped by the lies of out of state animal rights activists and now they will pay dearly. Hopefully we can get this awful amendment overturned in Federal Court.
Fred Barton
March 4, 2019 at 1:16 pm
It’s interesting that the industry routinely abandons dogs who are not profitable, but now that racing is being eliminated they are crying that the dogs are being taken away by the state. As far as I can see, nothing has changed. A profitable dog will still be kept and an unprofitable dog will be dumped on an adoption group. Just like before 13 passed.
Tom
March 4, 2019 at 1:31 pm
Fred doesnt know a thing, Just like to flap his mouth, Greyhounds are NOT abandoned, they are retired, if they are forced to retire early because of the ban the state will owe the owners money, His Scam group can keep bringing in sick and diseased dogs from China and spread it around the US
Fred Barton
March 4, 2019 at 2:12 pm
Perhaps you should Google euphemism. Unprofitable dogs are abandoned by the industry. Fortunately for them, there are adoption groups that step up, but you know the industry is getting rid of those dogs one way or another.
Tom
March 4, 2019 at 3:47 pm
and your group wont see a single one of them, yet the group your a board member for still is seeking donations for the Florida dogs, you must be proud of the scam, I just hope the complaints open an investigation into your scam group fundraising methods, members of your group have admitted in print that you wont get any Florida dogs but still seeking donations for them, you should be ashamed of scamming people, But your Fred the fraud
Fred Barton
March 4, 2019 at 4:07 pm
Well, you’re right about one thing: We won’t see any of the dogs, and neither will any of the blacklisted adoption groups who volunteered to help, but had the misfortune of being anti-racing. Why is that again? Oh yeah, because the industry puts the welfare of the dogs in its care above all else. Well, except for spite that is. Now, I know I’m wasting my time telling you this, but Grey2K does support adoption groups all over the country. We’ve been doing it since we were founded, and we will continue as long as there is a need.
JP Clark
March 4, 2019 at 4:49 pm
If Grey2K isn’t receiving any of Floridas greyhounds (seeing as how they don’t operate any adoption groups), and the anti racing groups openly admit that they are also not receiving retired racers from Florida, then why do they continue to solicit donations on the preface of the money going to the retired racers of Florida? Are these funds being given to the adoption groups who ARE getting retired racers from Florida, or simply being funneled into Grey2K’s coffer? These tactics are clearly disingenuous and outright lies.
Fred Barton
March 4, 2019 at 5:10 pm
There are many greyhounds that need help, from Alabama to Macau. And many groups helping them. Also, don’t be so sure anti-racing groups aren’t getting Florida dogs.
JP Clark
March 4, 2019 at 7:50 pm
We aren’t talking about Alabama or Macau. We are talking about the greyhounds of Florida, and how Grey2K continues to solicit donations on behalf of these dogs, yet the groups getting these dogs haven’t seen a penny. So again, where is the money going?
As far as the AR groups that received Florida retirees- the person/group who originally got those dogs and passed them off to AR groups has been found out, and will no longer be getting dogs.
Again- where is the money that Grey2K is soliciting going? It’s not going to the groups who are getting the dogs…
Fred Barton
March 4, 2019 at 9:29 pm
Maybe you aren’t talking about Alabama and Macau, but we are. Don’t forget, our mission is to end greyhound racing everywhere. You were just a chapter in our campaign. Another notch in our belt as it were. Also, don’t assume you’ve ferreted out everyone who opposes you. Making people jump through hoops and mouth the industry propaganda does not change what’s in their hearts.
Ruth Hagenbaugh
March 4, 2019 at 9:29 pm
, but Grey2K does support adoption groups all over the country. We’ve been doing it since we were founded, and we will continue as long as there is a need.
Fred, You are WRONG. None of the adoption groups have seen a penny from grey2k and they never have. So where is this donation money going? My adoption group has never gotten a dime from grey2k. Don’t lie for them. They never help any adoption groups and they have no intentions of doing it now or when racing stops in 2020. They are a SCAM. They BEG for donations to help the “poor” greyhounds and never give a dime to them. They don’t even offer anything to any group. Nothing but scam artists cheating innocent people out of their hard earned money. Tell me again Fred, where is this donation money going? In their pockets you say? Yep that’s where it’s going.
Craig Laginess
March 4, 2019 at 9:48 pm
Once again Freddie Florida is a notch in your belt that will break in Federal Court and Grey2k’s pants will be around their ankles exposing the lies for the whole world to see. Carey will have to go back to working glory holes and Christine will have to chase ambulances after 13 is overturned and their money making scheme is gone. Now take your “euphamisms” down the road from you and put them to good use and quit wasting my time taxpayer dollars.
Pete Temple
March 5, 2019 at 11:36 am
I scrolled all the way down and Fred never once answered the question about where donations to his activist group are going. So I think we know the answer, and it has nothing to do with caring for the animals. Once again, congrats on putting thousands of people out of work while raising your group’s profile. Happy counting….
Terry
March 5, 2019 at 4:44 pm
Again Fred, your group is a fraud, soliciting donations for the sole purpose of Florida dogs and it not going for it, What about your Florida Freedom Auction, Specifically says it is being used to find dogs from Florida tracks. Expect a investigation from the authorities on your scam
Craig Laginess
March 4, 2019 at 1:44 pm
I see that you threw another toddler off of the penny horse at Meijer again Fred. Why don’t you use your big words here in Michigan about how we are getting raped by the auto insurance industry? After all you are a stones throw away from the Capitol building.
Fred Barton
March 4, 2019 at 2:10 pm
Come on Craig. I know how you like to change the subject any time greyhound racing is brought up, but this is a stretch, even for you.
Craig Laginess
March 4, 2019 at 7:04 pm
Fred I change the subject to expose how full of shit you are and give you a better way, closer to home to use your big words. For the 852nd time the dogs aren’t abandoned or discarded by the industry. The real abuse is that of Grey2k and HSUS taking donations making people think that the funds will help the displaced NGA greyhounds that they won’t get. The owners and kennels will keep on saying FUCK YOU to the groups that try to put them out of business.
F red Barton
March 4, 2019 at 9:13 pm
Well, if that’s your story I guess you should stick to it, but you’ll have to walk me through how talking about insurance rates in Michigan reflects poorly on what Grey2K did in Florida.
Craig Laginess
March 4, 2019 at 9:29 pm
Fred, it’s obvious that you are not smart enough to put the dots together. Why don’t you put tour big words to a more local issue rather than an out of state issue. You could make more of an impact locally with your big words and not be wasting my taxpayer dollars on your salary
Steve Grabarczyk
March 4, 2019 at 2:56 pm
It’s interesting that a supposed intellectual college educated human can keep spouting the same bullshit over and over and over again with nothing to back the bullshit up. The CRC records proved there was no abuse as you like to keep flapping your gums about and it was a sham from the start. Maybe read ALL the transcripts like some of us have done, you might actually see you are full of shit. Very soon people are going to lose jobs, be exposed, and account for the bullshit and lies, and win or lose, I can tell you it’s not going to be in the greyhound industry. There will be no BS rhetoric out of your mouth, no amicus briefs from a bunch of clown ambulance chasers, no parade of paid public shills talking of “abalonic steroids” just the liars, a judge, and the good ole US Constitution.
Fred Barton
March 4, 2019 at 3:22 pm
Stevie! Good to see you are still out and about, and still as full of bluff and bluster as always. However, if you had taken the time to read ALL my post you would have seen that I wasn’t talking about abuse or the CRC. I was talking about how the industry abandons unprofitable greyhounds–which, now that I think of it, is a kind of abuse.
Tom
March 4, 2019 at 3:50 pm
Abuse is the way you use the dogs for fundraising, Your group even admitted to lies and deceit for their agenda, Maybe you need to read the reviews about how every student hates you because you are a blow hard
Craig Laginess
March 4, 2019 at 8:33 pm
Look’s like Fred has either found a bunch of pennies on the ground or he threw a bunch of toddlers off of the penny horse at Meijer to have his high horse to preach the Grey2k bullshit on, because he has been posting a lot today . I hope the toddlers kick him in the knees for his dick move. FTG.
Brian O'Gorman
March 5, 2019 at 1:04 am
Fred, it amuses me that when you don’t have a bunch of Michigan undergrads to bully because they need a passing grade, you are unable to give one cogent argument for the despicable ban on greyhound racing that you support. Give your anti-racing greyhounds a break and take a shower. How can you look at yourself in the mirror and declare what you do is moral? Oh, I know, the fellow grey2k board member so-called “reverend” Tom can make it OK…Let us not forget the attorney who fixes all this Christine, and the polo playing rescuer of over 2000 greyhounds (supposedly).
Fred Barton
March 5, 2019 at 7:15 am
You need to Google ad hominem fallacy
Brian O’Gorman
March 5, 2019 at 8:27 am
Fred needs to go back to college and take a course in ethics and logic. His experiences at grey2k surely did not help his thought processes. The other Grey2k board members are probably beyond reasoning with. A reverend, a lawyer, a dental hygienist, a faker that claims to have rescued over 2000 greyhounds and has affiliated with the polo players, a New Mexico college lecturer all got together and perpetrated a scam…Fred’s deceitful behavior will come back on him someday.
MikeG
March 4, 2019 at 4:30 pm
I have not seen any evidence of “abandonment” or “dumping”. They get retired, some never race if they show no interest. They get early retirement.
Legally, the precedent has been set with the fishing industry. A law change eliminated net fishing and they were compensated. Same should happen with greyhound racing. I see no difference. Only alternative would be to phase out racing with a 5 year notice. So no new dogs are brought into racing and existing dogs can complete their careers.
Fred Barton
March 4, 2019 at 4:51 pm
See my response to Tom re: euphemism. Unprofitable dogs are abandoned. Luckily for them, adoption groups step in to save them, but the bottom line is theyare gone one way or another if they don’t make money.
Ruth Hagenbaugh
March 4, 2019 at 9:19 pm
Fred, where are the greyhounds abandoned? Can you state the place? How many have you seen abandoned? Did you “rescue” those abandoned greyhounds? Why do you keep saying that when you know DAMN well they are not abandoned. The owners keep their greyhounds or give them to adoption groups, they DO NOT abandon them. Every greyhound has a place to go. Why are you repeating the same lie over and over? Is that what Thiel told you to keep saying? Get your head out of Thiels ass and stop the lying. You are really pathetic.
Fred Barton
March 5, 2019 at 7:19 am
You need to Google ad hominem fallacy
Fred Barton
March 5, 2019 at 7:20 am
Every time a greyhound stops being profitable it is abandoned by the industry. Luckily there are volunteer groups that step in and rescue the dog, but the bottom line is, that dog will be gone regardless.
Ruth Hagenbaugh
March 5, 2019 at 11:19 am
Fred, greyhounds are not abandoned by the industry. The industry does not own the greyhounds, private owners own the greyhounds. They keep their greyhounds or give them to an APPROVED adoption group. That is not abandonment. Look up the definition. And most greyhounds are retired just because they have reached their age where the owners feel it’s the right time to retire them. They are NOT rescued. Stop with the same lies over and over and over. Do you have your speech memorized? You like to repeat all the time. Can’t think of anything else to say? Show me any abandoned greyhounds? You can’t. Giving up dogs or cats or horses or any animal for adoption is not abandoning them. You really can’t be that stupid can you? I guess you can because that’s all you keep repeating.
Brian O'Gorman
March 5, 2019 at 1:13 am
Fred Barton and his ilk with their particular brand of deceitful propaganda would make Joseph Goebells very happy.
Aaron Cross
March 4, 2019 at 4:15 pm
Just a thought, but maybe instead of the trainers living off the dogs like ticks and fleas, the dogs could live off the trainers in a fair and balanced exchange of roles?
JP Clark
March 4, 2019 at 4:29 pm
Seeing as how greyhounds do not begin their racing careers until they are at least 18 months old, and earn no winnings until at least that time, who do you think pays for the raising and care provided to these dogs from birth? That would be the greyhounds owners. Seeing as how it costs roughly $20,000 per pup to raise until they begin their careers (with no promise of any pup being successful), not including stud fees or pre natal care, how could that be considered anything other than an investment coming from the owners themselves? As is with any other enterprise, investments must be made in order to provide for profitability later on down the line. Thats how business works. The care and well being of these greyhounds is needed, required and expensive. Surely, these owners will not make such investments so that the dogs are in a position to be mistreated or not taken proper care of.
Nicholas
March 5, 2019 at 1:37 am
How’s the banning of the industry going in NZ?
5 years ago a big song and dance about how in 5 years it would be gone…….
Rider
March 4, 2019 at 4:47 pm
So if tobacco is made illegal the state should pay manufacturers, distributors, and retailers of tobacco billions of dollars? Hahahaha!!!! That’s a DOG of an argument! Good luck lil pup!
Jimmy Conner
March 4, 2019 at 10:01 pm
What is the next business the government will target and eliminate? We already see a move to eliminate the health insurance industry. Seriously, why are citizens relinquishing such power to the darn government? Governor Kottkamp is spot on!
Ralph W.
March 4, 2019 at 10:54 pm
Banning the abusive practice of greyhound racing isn’t a government taking of property. Anyone who wants to own a greyhound and treat it humanely can continue to do so. As for the members of a despicable industry that earned a few greasy pennies doping up abused animals and running them in circles until they were not longer profitable, they can find a decent way to earn a living like the rest of us. If they no longer know what to do with their “property” dogs now that they can’t profit from them, plenty are waiting to adopt.
Brian O'Gorman
March 5, 2019 at 1:32 am
Ralph, with an ignorant attitude about greyhound racing such as yours, I sincerely hope that a retired racer never comes your way. Why don’t you investigate, in person and on your own, the facts about greyhound racing. Perhaps you lack the moral fortitude to do so, preferring instead to be spoon fed vile lies concerning greyhound racing from the likes of grey2k? I would recommend that you visit a greyhound track or kenned to check the facts.
Terry
March 6, 2019 at 12:24 am
You need to get your stories straight, dog are not doped or abused, do some research instead of listening to Greed2K who has admitted to lies and deceit to further their agenda, They dont donate money to adoption groups like they say they do, In stead repeating lies do some research
Nicholas
March 5, 2019 at 1:43 am
Fred,
When are you stepping up in Australia? Looking forward to winning again after we beat the government over it which caused the Premier and Deputy Premier both the step down.
Fred Barton
March 5, 2019 at 8:40 am
The group I volunteer with has received help from Grey2K as well as another group in Michigan and several in Illinois and Minnesota. Because of my position on the Grey2K Board I’m aware of many groups who have received our help. Of course I don’t expect your bubble of denial to be pierced by a simple statement of fact. Actually, that’s one of the reason you lost so badly in Florida: inability to accept the reality around you.
Tom
March 6, 2019 at 12:27 am
yes Geed2k’s help averaged 50.00 a dog, look at their tax returns, its public record
Ruth Hagenbaugh
March 6, 2019 at 1:46 pm
Fred, of course grey2k will give money to your adoption group. You kiss their ass all the time. Grey2k does not give money to any adoption groups or any kennels to help with costs. Why is that? Oh because then they wouldn’t have money to pay for their vacations. Tell your buddies to send money to my group. We could use it to go place greyhounds. After all that’s what grey2k claims they do. They help to place greyhounds with the donation money. What a bunch of scam artist liars they are.
Fred Barton
March 5, 2019 at 8:45 am
Trying to kill the messenger didn’t work for you last November, but you keep doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
Terry
March 6, 2019 at 12:31 am
stop deflecting and answer the question, Why are seeking donations for Florida dogs when you know your group wont be getting any,
Fred Barton
March 5, 2019 at 8:49 am
Oh yeah, the lawsuit. I forgot about that. Have you even got a court date yet? It’s March you know. Tracks are closing and plans are being drawn up for development already. Pretty soon there will be nothing left to sue over.
Fred Barton
March 5, 2019 at 12:03 pm
You make a distinction without a difference. Why are those greyhounds being given up? Has there been a death in the family and no one can take care of them? No. Has there been a divorce and the family is disbanding? No. Has the owner lost a job and can no longer afford the dog? No. The dog is simply no longer profitable and the owner is cutting his or her losses, much as you’d throw away a toaster that no longer worked. And if it weren’t for those adoption groups that step in, that dog would face an uncertain and possibly fatal future. That’s why it’s called rescue.
Fred Barton
March 5, 2019 at 12:09 pm
You know, you folks ought to have a meeting so you can get your stories straight. You complained that we blew in to the state and spent a ton of money in order to bamboozle the voters, then you turn around and say we’re just lining our pockets with it. Well, which is it?
Terry
March 6, 2019 at 12:29 am
the lawsuit would put a stop to all of it until you and your lousy group lose
Jeff White
March 5, 2019 at 12:53 pm
No private property is being “taken for public use”, and therefore no requirement for compensation is triggered by the constitution. Nobody is being deprived of property “without due process of law”. There can be no higher due process of law than a direct vote of the people. Both the “net fishing case” and the “pregnant pig case” were resolved out of court by legislation, so neither of them is a legally binding precedent. In the case of greyhound racing, the legislature may or may not decide to give some compensation, but they are under no legal obligation to do so.
Fred Barton
March 5, 2019 at 1:27 pm
You may recall we didn’t win at first in Massachusetts either and we tried for years to get the Florida legislature to move on our issues and failed. I think that’s why you fear and hate us so much: We don’t give up.
Brian O’Gorman
March 5, 2019 at 2:25 pm
I don’t fear the likes of you. I believe that good will win over evil, and evil you and grey2k are. It may take time but good will win over the detestable Grey2k. Massachusetts and Florida notwithstanding you will be fought against, whether you have a so-called “reverend” Tom on your board or not to tell you the evil you do is acceptable, which it will never be. Some people will never give up against what you stand for – lies, vile despicable behavior – scum of the earth evil.
Nicholas
March 5, 2019 at 3:01 pm
I think you fear stepping up and coming to Australia Fred.
I did have to laugh at the mini bus that turned up with all the antis at a race meeting. They called it the biggest protest of the year, people were coming from all over, there was information on how to make a banner etc…. End result. 100 outside 3500 inside.
Aaron is good at protests, how many you get that night? Was it 5 or 7. Hope you split the taxi fare.
Fred Barton
March 5, 2019 at 2:32 pm
Thank you for helping me make my point.
Brian O’Gorman
March 5, 2019 at 2:47 pm
Inelegant logic you have, as in your character. As I’ve previously written, go back to school and study ethics (especially) and also perhaps rhetoric and expository writing.
Fred Barton
March 5, 2019 at 3:01 pm
Nevertheless he persisted. If we’re so inconsequential why did you spend almost all your time attacking us during the campaign instead of addressing the issue everyone was voting on: Greyhound racing? To paraphrase the Bard, Methinks you doth protest too much.
Fred Barton
March 5, 2019 at 3:16 pm
If you think we’re afraid, just look at our track record. And you know what? All that was accomplished with only six full time employees, a couple of part timers and the rest were volunteers.
Craig Laginess
March 5, 2019 at 3:36 pm
Your track record is a winning one, your ethical record smells worse than the manure at Michigan State. Remember Freddy karma is a bitch and everyone involved with Grey2k will get bitten by Karma. Grey2k is hated because they are that annoying whining little kid that won’t go away. Now go take some laxatives and go to the bathroom Fred because you are full of shit.
Tom
March 7, 2019 at 11:57 pm
you forgot to mention the HSUS and ASPCA, sorry but your greedy little 6 people didnt do much, you even had to pay people to protest
Fred Barton
March 5, 2019 at 3:59 pm
I’ll accept your description with one caveat: The whinny little kids who won’t go away until they win.
Fred Barton
March 5, 2019 at 5:02 pm
Actually it doen’t say that, but regardless, did you think your blacklist was 100% effective?
Craig Laginess
March 5, 2019 at 6:50 pm
Nothing is 100% effective, the occasional rat finds a way through. You must’ve found a quarter or two on the ground Freddy in order to pay for the penny horse rides so you can spew your Grey2k lies and euphemisms(big words) on the past couple of days.
Fred Barton
March 5, 2019 at 9:24 pm
Someone is going to have to explain to me why, after losing an election by a margin greater than 2 to 1 someone in the industry didn’t say maybe we should re-evaluate our strategy. Just by reading your comments a person wouldn’t know the election ever happened.
Craig Laginess
March 5, 2019 at 9:46 pm
The only reasons why it passed by such a wide margin is because of the deceitful wording on the ballot that took advantage of the ignorant and stupid people, the payoff to the media and that the pro-racing side was outspent 12 – 1. You slime balls refused to debate because you wouldn’t be able to craft your bullshit on the fly, so Carey the chicken that she is refused to debate the welfare of the dogs. It will be a whole different story when Carey and her husband Christine get put on the stand in Federal Court.
Fred Barton
March 6, 2019 at 7:21 am
OK, two things: First, are you really sure you want to call 69% of the voters in Florida ignorant and stupid? That’s almost seven in 10. Seems a bit of a stretch, no? And second since, instead of speaking to the issue, your strategy of name calling and left the field open for us to, as you say, spread our lies, we come back to my first point–isn’t about time to take a look at that?
Fred Barton
March 6, 2019 at 7:23 am
I didn’t realize the number of dogs we help per year was listed on our tax return. But it must be, or otherwise how could you calculate how much we spent per dog. Well, I suppose you could just make it up, that would be easier.
Fred Barton
March 6, 2019 at 7:26 am
Ah, the lawsuit again. You know I’m beginning to think this is just a figment of your imagination. I mean, here it is March already and do you even have a court date? Who is representing you? And how did you manage to jump a state issue right into Federal court?
Craig Laginess
March 7, 2019 at 1:11 pm
You’ll find out who is representing the group who is trying to get 13 overturned when it’s filed. Sure it’s been 4 months since it passed, but we do have until 2020 to get a stay. We don’t want you slimy little weasels trying to influence our attorneys like you did with the billboard ads that were paid for. Now go take another laxative and get to the bathroom, because you’re full of shit Freddy.
Fred Barton
March 6, 2019 at 7:28 am
See my response to JP Clark.
Tom
March 6, 2019 at 10:03 am
Still no comment why are you soliciting donations for Florida dogs when you know your group wont be getting any, Deflect all you want, your a scam and a con man. your leader needs to go jump in front of a train again
Michael
March 6, 2019 at 1:08 pm
As far as I’m concerned the State never took anything away from anyone. The people voted to petition for a ballot, the people voted on the amendment, the people won by overwhelming support of votes to end racing and betting on dog racing. The pregnant pig award was done by useless legislative representatives who gave away money. It’s the same useless representatives that want to skirt the law and try to get sports betting approved by going around the law. If the criminals within the legislative body operated in a legal manner this bullsh*t wouldn’t even be an issue.
If the dog owners what compensation they should have held a better standard for themselves. Since they didn’t it’s their fault that the ballot had to come about from the people of the state who had enough of animal abuse. Can’t blame the State for something the people want.
Fred Barton
March 6, 2019 at 2:42 pm
As usual, you only read the part of my post that supports your bias. I listed several other groups who received grants from us as well. If you want to be considered, apply.
Not buying what Grey2K is selling
March 6, 2019 at 5:22 pm
Last week, a greyhound adoption group in Florida reached out to Grey2K with a request for some of the funding that has been raised by Grey2K for Floridas retired racers. That is what the funds are supposed to be for, right? Perhaps you can tell us why the request was posted on G2K’s twitter page as a scam and a hoax? It’s quite easy to verify the group and that they have retired racers from Florida. So why did they deflect, calling the adoption group a fraud instead of giving them the requested money? The money that is the guise of these “fundraisers”?
Perhaps because there was never any intention of the money going to the dogs. Perhaps because the money is being spent on payroll, phone bills and propaganda, rather than on what people are donating the money FOR…
Tom
March 6, 2019 at 9:18 pm
Still NO response of why your soliciting donations for Florida dogs, when Your group wont be getting any Florida Dogs, Your using the money to bring in sick and diseased China dogs and pushing them off as NGA dogs,
Fred Barton
March 6, 2019 at 9:28 pm
See my response to JP Clark. As for the Macau dogs, it would be more helpful if you knew what you were talking about. Check out the regulations for importing animals.
Terry
March 8, 2019 at 12:00 am
we are not talking about Macau , this article and your phony fundraising is about Florida dogs, typical Fred trying to weasel his fat self out of the facts
Fred Barton
March 6, 2019 at 9:31 pm
Tell me the name of the group and I’ll check it out.
Fred Barton
March 7, 2019 at 3:34 pm
I don’t know Craig. This still seems a little fishy to me. First, if you retained a law firm to represent you, that’s their job. That’s what you’re paying them for. If you’re afraid they could be swayed, then they’re probably not a very good investment. Second, if you’re hoping for a stay it would be better to file earlier rather than later. The longer you wait the more the stay (assuming you could get one) becomes moot because tracks have closed, are closing, will close. Third, you still haven’t explained how you can jump a state issue right into Federal court. Fourth, you folks have a history of making things up, like Steve’s “forensic accountant” who was supposed to shine a light on all our financial shenanigans. I realize this is all circumstantial, but I think I’m going to have to go with the weight of evidence here and call Bull. Change my mind.
Craig Laginess
March 7, 2019 at 3:47 pm
Once again Fred for the umpteenth time you are wrong. We are not afraid that they could be swayed, but we know how you wack jobs have acted in the past and I trust my dogs with food on the counter more than I trust Grey2k, HSUS, PETA or any other animal rights organization. You don’t worry about the filing it will come soon enough or as to how we are getting it to Federal Court. That information will all become public in due time. As far as your financial shenanigans, that will come out in due time also. Did you steal the shield from the Sparty mascot, because you seem to be deflecting the truth that we are throwing at you and Grey2k quite a bit or are you partaking in the now legalized marijuana activity here in Michigan?
Fred Barton
March 7, 2019 at 5:03 pm
Well, it’s cute that you think you need to protect your lawyers from the big bad Grey2K. It’s all just a bit too secret for me. As for how you get into Federal court coming out–it’s already out. It’s called the law. The law that determines what kind of case goes where. Did you have imaginary friends as a child?
Craig Laginess
March 7, 2019 at 5:19 pm
Once again you don’t know the law Fred, we have found loopholes just like Grey2k did and we are not tipping our hand. I didn’t need imaginary friends because where I grew up there weren’t any slime buckets like Grey2k or horses asses like you.
Fred Barton
March 7, 2019 at 9:16 pm
OK, let me get this straight. Your suit is based on a loophole and you think you’re going to overturn an amendment passed in a lawful election after it had been certified by the highest court in Florida? And further you think this technicality will get you an injunction? Good luck with that.
Craig Laginess
March 7, 2019 at 9:32 pm
Fred Florida was the only state to have a fucked up count and controversy surrounding it. 13 is not the only amendment being challenged in Federal Court. Don’t worry Grey2k isn’t being sued, but 6 employees will be out of a job when 13 is overturned.
Joe
March 8, 2019 at 12:04 am
Is there really any need to respond to a guy with a reputation like this? Nice Job Professor Barton. How does it feel to know your students feel the same way about you as everyone in the greyhound racing industry does?
https://www.koofers.com/michigan-state-university-msu/instructors/barton-271247/
Joe
March 8, 2019 at 12:19 am
Everyone should be sure that June Pierce Youatt is made fully aware of the students’ ratings of Fred Barton as a “professor”. Ms. Youatt is currently serving as Provost and Executive Vice President for Academic Affairs. Her contact information can be found online. Fred won’t mind at all if we interfere with his livelihood.
Joe
March 8, 2019 at 12:02 am
I encourage everyone in the greyhound racing industry to contact the administration at Michigan State in order to bring their full attention to “Professor” Barton’s record as an instructor. He has certainly “abandoned” his duty to educate students who are paying exorbitant amounts in tuition dollars. He won’t mind if you put your nose into his business. Maybe he should invest some time learning how to become an educator and stop wasting time on his computer being a cowardly keyboard warrior.
https://www.koofers.com/michigan-state-university-msu/instructors/barton-271247/
Brian O'Gorman
March 8, 2019 at 10:22 pm
A change.org petition would be great in that regard! A taste or their own medicine for the likes of vile grey2k. The smelly (as in body odor) so-called “rhetoric professor” without an iota of academic morality and ethics, whose students despise him, as well they should.
Oh, and there is also the other academic, a grey2k board member, one Eric Jackson, at the University of New Mexico who has a change.org petition against him.
Tom
March 8, 2019 at 12:05 am
and yet you refuse to answer why you are using the Florida greyhounds for donations, and using it else where if not pocketing it. your nothing but a fraud
Joe
March 8, 2019 at 12:28 am
Here’s what Fred Barton’s students think of him. And this is one of the nicer, more polite comments…..
“He is a rather disgusting individual. Very condescending. He is not interested in anyone else’s opinion on anything. Also, from a hygiene perspective, he has horrible body odor.”
Brian O'Gorman
March 8, 2019 at 10:26 pm
Start a petition to remove him from Michigan State. After all his grey2k work means other folks loose the jobs. Why not “Body Odor” Professor Fred loosing his job?
Fred Barton
March 8, 2019 at 7:14 am
But 13 wasn’t one of those controversies. If that’s your loophole. I wouldn’t hold my breath.
Terry
March 8, 2019 at 10:43 am
but your students have to hold their breathe because your BO is so bad, shit cant smell itself
Fred Barton
March 8, 2019 at 7:16 am
13 passed with more than two to one plurality.
Fred Barton
March 8, 2019 at 7:19 am
Maybe you aren’t talking about Macau, but we are. Remember our name? GREY2K USA Worldwide. Florida was just a chapter to us in an ongoing campaign. A notch in our belt as it were. BTW we are helping dogs in Florida. You think your blacklist is airtight? Think again.
Fred Barton
March 8, 2019 at 7:21 am
13 won by more than two to one. Your campaign of personal attacks, innuendo and baseless accusations was pitiful. I hardly think I wasted my time pointing that out to the voters.
Brian O'Gorman
March 8, 2019 at 10:36 pm
So you should be censored and removed from you position at Michigan Sate if the voters and administration say so? They could base that on say a “scum bag” type argument that grey2k always uses. Just return the favor so to speak against the like of Professor “Body Odor” Fred…
Fred Barton
March 8, 2019 at 7:24 am
I wish you folks would make up your minds. You accuse us of dumping a boatload of cash on the state to mislead all the voters, then you accuse us of pocketing all the donations. Which is it?
Craig Laginess
March 8, 2019 at 7:49 am
You must have found a bunch of pennies on the ground and no kids on the penny horse at Meijer today??? It is easy to connect the dots about the donations, it’s obvious that you are smoking dope or that you are in denial of the fraud that Grey2k and HSUS is. Florida is the notch in their belt that will be undone. I am sure that Theil and her husband Dorchak have gigs lined up with HSUS or PETA, you will go on poisoning young minds at Michigan State, even though your students hate you. 13 was surrounded with controversy by the lack of wording on the ballot, it’s pretty sad that a lot of the top politicians in Florida said that it doesn’t belong in their constitution. This now gives PETA and HSUS a foothold in Florida’s constitution and they will be coming after other states also. The main reason 13 passed is because the no on 13 campaign was outspent 12 – 1. I am done arguing with you on this. I know that you will use your euphamisms (big words)” while wasting either students tuition or my taxpayer dollars spreading the Grey2k bullshit.
Fred Barton
March 8, 2019 at 8:09 am
See, this is what I’m talking about. On the one hand you call us frauds which would imply we took donations under false pretenses, then you say we outspent you 12 – 1 which would imply we used the donations for what they were intended. Which is it?
Tom
March 8, 2019 at 10:46 am
you received most of the money from the HSUS, even saw emails where your group was begging them for more money,
Fred Barton
March 8, 2019 at 10:57 am
OK this is called moving the goalposts. First your issue is with the donations themselves, now it’s with where they came from. What difference does either make? The result was 69% in favor of 13.
Terry
March 8, 2019 at 2:01 pm
you still havent answered WHY ARE YOU SOLICITING DONATIONS FOR FLORIDA GREYHOUNDS AT THE PRESENT TIME WHEN YOU KNOW DAM WELL YOUR SCAM GROUP WONT BE GETTING ANY
Fred Barton
March 8, 2019 at 2:42 pm
Grey2K won’t be getting any greyhounds, because, perhaps you’ve noticed, we are an advocacy group (see 2018 election re: Amendment 13) but the adoptions groups we support will. Did you think your blacklist was foolproof?
Brian O'Gorman
March 8, 2019 at 10:46 pm
What’s foolproof Fred as long as the despicable grey2k can be fought tooth and nail? grey2k is based upon detestable evil precepts and deserves to confronted at every opportunity.
Fred Barton
March 9, 2019 at 8:19 am
Well, if you consider name calling, baseless accusations and attempts to intimidate fighting tooth and nail have at it. It didn’t do you a lot of good last election, did it?
Craig Laginess
March 9, 2019 at 8:33 am
Throwing kids off of the penny horse at Meijer in East Lansing again!!! Such a dick move, but not surprising coming from a Grey2k board member.
Fred Barton
March 9, 2019 at 8:40 am
Thanks for helping me make my point.
Craig Laginess
March 9, 2019 at 8:47 am
If Grey2k can make up stories so can we. At least my stories make fun of you and make people laugh and not ruin the livelihoods of hardworking people.
Fred Barton
March 9, 2019 at 9:24 am
Well, that’s OK. All those people who were laughing at me went out and voted to pass 13 so win win.
Joe
March 9, 2019 at 3:32 pm
Michigan State students tell us all we need to know about Fred Barton….
“Biggest dick ever. extremely rude. likes to call his students out and embarass them. if you ask something he doesn’t know how to answer, he makes you look stupid instead of himself. DONT TAKE THIS CLASS!!!!!!!”
Joe
March 9, 2019 at 3:39 pm
Let’s all do the right thing and make sure this guy can no longer do this to college students. Michigan State students once again tell us all we need to know about Fred Barton…
“Barton is the worst professor. He teaches you nothing accept that his grades are final. If he likes you then you are going to be fine in the course, but if he does not…..god help you. He is a very strict grader and likes to think of himself as a literary vigilante and takes everything language arts into his own opinion. In class, he asks open-ended questions that make you use your opinion and then he’ll call you out to tell you that your opinion is wrong and that you are beneath him. He also hates to be challenged. If he is ever challenged by a student, he will say something totally irrelevant and make you look stupid in front of your peers for even thinking that you should bring up an intelligent answer. I do not know why he is still a professor here because he honestly does nothing productive or helpful for his students. He is closed minded and rude. His morals are totally flawed….”
Craig Laginess
March 9, 2019 at 4:25 pm
I’ve talked with a few Michigan State grads and they echo the same words.
Joe
March 9, 2019 at 7:00 pm
I notice that Fred doesn’t have much to say about the student reviews. Perhaps he doesn’t like the idea of people bringing this sort of information to the attention of the administration of Michigan State. It’s rather unpleasant when people stick their noses into your livelihood, isn’t it? Another gem of a comment….
“Complete a**hole. Grades paper with complete bias. Vague and bias in everything he does and says. He is a dick who will fail you if you do not suck up to him every day. Class discussions are a complete waste of time, four hours a week. Books are tedious and boring, but you do not have to read them, if you just go along with his philosophy that America is broken then you’ll be fine in class. 80% of your grade is if he likes you or not (mostly if you agree with his radical ideals)”
Brian O’Gorman
March 9, 2019 at 8:21 pm
So Fred, let me understand this. You admit that you don’t like greyhound racing. No one forces you to watch it or participate in the sport. But, in your self righteous manner, your arrogance compels you to work against the sport, in trying to prevent anyone from enjoying it. Yet, in your strange logic, Grey2k despicably decides that it is incorrect to have greyhound racing anywhere. In doing so, you and the dental hygienist, the “reverend” (really?), the ambulance chaser (a shame the MBTA didn’t finish it), a lecturer at the college in New Mexico (no student evaluations available), squealing Thiel, polo playing sobbing Sonia – rescuer of thousands of greyhounds (unbelievable), and even the memory of the South Florida cancer victim (to cynically pluck the heartstrings) are presented to think you are immune to criticism? Guess again. You and Grey2k should be called out for the evil you do. And since you and Grey2k are evil you should be fought tooth and nail. So be it.
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