Staff Reports
Supporters of the proposed constitutional ban on greyhound racing have a new video ad highlighting the number of positive drug tests on dogs.
The ad, posted on YouTube, asserts that “in the past decade, Florida racing greyhounds have tested drug positive more than 400 times, including 70 cocaine positives.”
The ad is from Protect Dogs-Yes on 13.
“In the scope of a year, the state numbers for racing dogs testing positive for prohibited drugs in Florida have quadrupled,” Firstcoastnews.com reported in May.
The amendment, placed on the ballot by the 2017-18 Constitution Revision Commission, would outlaw wagering on live dog races in the state. Amendments need at least 60 percent approval to be added to the state constitution.
But the proposal was ordered off the ballot by a Tallahassee judge, who called it “trickeration” after finding its title and summary would mislead voters. That decision is being appealed by Attorney General Pam Bondi.
The amendment would allow other gambling at tracks, such as card games, even after dog racing ends.
The ad is below:
309 comments
Kelly Faircloth
August 23, 2018 at 12:21 pm
Vitamins? Seriously? That hardly means anything to the dogs that have been killed at Florida tracks since 2013. Almost 500, in fact. Nor does it prevent broken bones and other injuries. I’d tell you how many, but the racing industry has successfully kept that hidden from our view. And vitamins certainly don’t counteract the cocaine and other drugs that have been administered to those innocent dogs.
Vitamins. Yeah, that’s the ticket.
#VoteYesOn13
George Bova
August 23, 2018 at 11:07 pm
Are you saying these supplements are illegal and banned by racing regulators? These are the the same state authorities who made an utter mess asserting bogus cocaine dogs allegations. The news of their bungling was in all the newspapers. Perhaps you heard about it? When Florida finally gets a real attorney general, she’ll pursue rooting out the corruption in that department… and Carey Theil will be a defendant. #OutrightTrickeration
Kelly the dog killer
August 24, 2018 at 12:52 am
how many dogs have you killed this year alone, Vote No on 13. almost 500 out of how many Races X 8 dogs per race.. less than than 1%, … you kill more in a month
Don Goldstein
August 24, 2018 at 9:17 am
We have asked this before with no reply but I’ll try again. Who do you think Kelly Faircloth is? I can tell you from personal knowledge that she rescues greyhounds as the president of Greyhound Rescue and Adoptions of Tampa Bay (GREAT, Inc.). She does not, and has not killed dogs, she rescues them.
Edward Overby
August 24, 2018 at 12:27 pm
You are wrong on your comments, greyounds would overdose violently from Cocaine due to there off the charts extremely high metabolism. They have in the past been subjected to being given steroids, that was in the 1970’s and 1980’s. These groups that want to stop Greyhound racing do not give one nichel towards helping the dogs after the tracks are closed. If you and all the other voter’s want to help the Greyhound’s make sure to have an an amendment that says the state will relocate the dogs.
Edward Overby
August 24, 2018 at 12:48 pm
Ok, first of all in 6 years that you claim all these injuries how many dogs raced out of the 500 dogs injured. I Will give you a hypothetical number, 8 dogs per race,15 races a night, 362 days and night a year they race X’s six tracks, wow 260640 dogs race on Florida per year, 500 get injured. That would be 2 percent of these racers get injured per year. Then there is the cocaine debate. A Greyhound’s metabolism is so high that they would die inside a minute due to there off the charts metabolism. Finally, these groups wanting to close the racing tracks due not give a damn about these dogs. If these groups did care about these dogs they would actually help pay to get these dogs relocated instead of leaving it up to the adoption groups who struggle as it is with this process. You and all these bleeding heart liberals need to care for the dogs and not your political agenda.
Travis
August 24, 2018 at 2:48 pm
When I first started working a dog track, one of the kennel owners was banned from his own kennel for, guess what? A dog testing positive for cocaine, so please it happens way more than you think.
Eric Jackson
August 24, 2018 at 3:36 pm
Do you really believe there are more than 260,000 greyhounds in Florida? Specifically, more than a quarter million active, racing greyhounds? Your math is abysmal.
You’re making a bizarre, nonsensical argument against cocaine. I would ask for sources or evidence, but your claim is so outlandish that it’s clearly pure fantasy. Greyhounds have tested positive for cocaine. That’s a fact.
I can’t believe you are claiming that advocacy groups, most populated by rescue and adoption group members, should somehow bear financial responsibility for caring for dogs used up by the racing industry. Why does the industry not pay for those dogs? Why does the industry continue to rely on volunteers and non-profit groups to take the ex-racers, transport them, vet them, and then pay for them until they can be adopted?
Andy
August 24, 2018 at 3:40 pm
He is talking about RACING STARTS, the cocaine positives you refer to, a minute percent as he says, WAS THROWN OUT IN COURT, just like your sham amendment. Your side is the one with a documented liar running the show, the one implicated in blackmail, the one aligned with ALF, the one who steals pictures, the one who got caught at OUTRIGHT TRICKERATION
Eric Jackson
August 24, 2018 at 3:47 pm
Then he should have said “racing starts” instead of dogs, especially when he goes on to cite the number of dogs that died. At what point is it acceptable to you that a dog died? Is there a certain number of starts that justifies a dog being killed because of a racing injury? At what point do you say, “Well, he raced ____ number of times, so it’s okay that he died.” You’re reiterating that these dogs are just a commodity to you, like widgets. As long as you get enough use out of them, you’re satisfied.
Andy
August 24, 2018 at 4:09 pm
As long as the money keeps coming in in response to your lies you are satisfied. The esteemed Judge Gievers saw right through you fraudsters. People die in car wrecks, so lets get rid of cars. Same with airplanes. Injuries happen in any sport.
Mike Jawarski
August 26, 2018 at 8:58 am
Imbecile.
Francesca
August 26, 2018 at 1:29 pm
Dog killer
Mike Jawarski
August 27, 2018 at 4:36 pm
Fred, you write as if you have some knowledge about what a greyhound wants or needs. About how a greyhound “feels” about racing. But you don’t. Having one as a pet, as I presume you do, doesn’t give insight about what a greyhounds “wants” or “needs”. Those who live and work with greyhounds 7/365 do. Anyone who visits a greyhound farm or kennel can clearly see that these are very happy, healthy dogs. They are perfectly content.
Fred Barton
August 27, 2018 at 5:31 pm
You’re probably right. Most likely the dogs don’t know their lives are being endangered when they are led out onto the track, but you do. And still you continue to do it. For money. That makes it even more reprehensible.
Mike Jawarski
August 27, 2018 at 11:04 pm
And every time you take your dog for a walk or to a dog park, you are endangering their lives. I guess that’s pretty reprehensible too. There is no difference.
Andy
August 28, 2018 at 6:06 pm
Just like you know the money coming into grey2k goes for six figure salaries and not helping one dog, talk about reprehensible.
Eric Jackson
August 27, 2018 at 11:41 pm
If a dog died every three days at a dog park in my town, the dog parks would be shut down. Big difference, Mike.
Mike Jawarski
August 28, 2018 at 11:53 am
I’m not talking about a single dog park in BF New Mexico. Dogs die from accidents and illness every day. Greyhounds are no different.
Besides, aren’t you the same guy from an adoption group in Albuquerque who withheld food from greyhounds to make them look malnourished? Pretty sure you have no business commenting about animal welfare.
Andy
August 28, 2018 at 4:25 pm
Except a dog doesn’t die every 3 days, that is just more distortion of the facts, exactly like the OUTRIGHT TRICKERATION Judge Gievers caught you scammers at.
Eric Jackson
August 28, 2018 at 4:41 pm
It’s a well-documented fact, Andy. Just like all of our claims – documented and cited.
Andy
August 28, 2018 at 5:57 pm
” Just like all our claims”, right, such as you claim Grey2k not aligned with ALF, such as you claim dorchak isn’t a documented liar, now you will claim you didn’t get caught at OUTRIGHT TRICKERATION. But witholding food from an animal just so it looks mainourished, that is plain evil. A special place in hell for you fraudsters
Eric Jackson
August 28, 2018 at 12:10 pm
Another complete fabrication, Mike. Do you make this stuff up on your own or is there someone telling you lies that you mindlessly repeat?
Andy
August 28, 2018 at 4:28 pm
Says the guy from the scam group who got caught in court at fabrication plus has a comfirmed fabricator….. LIAR, as president. Too funny
Mike Jawarski
August 27, 2018 at 4:37 pm
Yes, Eric certainly is.
Janet Skinner
August 23, 2018 at 12:23 pm
This is one the industry’s dirtiest secrets. Not only does the use of these drugs have a negative impact on the health of racing greyhounds, it seriously calls into question the “integrity” of the dog racing industry. Yet one of many reasons why Floridians will overwhelmingly vote YES on 13 this November!
Andy
August 23, 2018 at 5:57 pm
Ah, who called called out for OUTRIGHT TRICKERATION, it’s not even going to be on the ballot lying moron
Eric Jackson
August 23, 2018 at 7:31 pm
Andy, it is on the ballot.
Andy
August 23, 2018 at 8:33 pm
Until the Supreme Court agrees with Judge Gievers next Wednesday, just watch
Joe T
August 24, 2018 at 12:57 am
exactly!!!! a negative impact on their health so why would they intentionally give it to them and expect them to win, calls into question why someone would assume it was given to them and not environmental exposure due to the very low amounts, think about your lie now
Eric Jackson
August 24, 2018 at 3:37 pm
Who says the dogs are expected to win? There are many ways to influence the outcome of a race.
Michael
August 24, 2018 at 4:49 pm
Thats a good one.. Enviromental exposure.. So tell me more how cocaine is just floating around in the air for ingestion. Cocaine is a product manufactured by humans and the only way the dogs can have it in their system is it being administered by a human. If this is not true than enlighten me on how nature produces cocaine naturally..
Axelskater
August 24, 2018 at 9:25 pm
Here you go smarty pants…
http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/08/14/cocaine.traces.money/
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/mar/19/contaminated-banknotes-caused-bus-driver-test-positive-cocaine
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/257737148_Cocaine_surface_contamination_and_the_medico-legal_implications_of_its_transfer
Currency also tests positive for feces but really the less said about that the better. So next time do your research, genius.
Michael
August 25, 2018 at 3:31 pm
Thats funny.. Why havent my dogs. A rottie and chow never tested positive for cocaine.. Neither have any dog (mutilple breeds) I owned for the past 50 years or my friends dogs. It must be only a greyhound thing.
Michael
August 25, 2018 at 3:44 pm
Also dogs dont handle money.. I work in the casino industry for 30 years and handle literally a ton of cash every week and I never tested ppsitive for cocaine nor has anyone else in the casino industry just from handling the cash. Why dont bank employees test positive? Why doesnt anyone else who handles cash and doesnt do drugs, in their business test positive? Why does everyone who is subjected to a drug test for employment who actually doesnt do drugs test positive for cocaine? If your bogus articles held any weight nobody would be safe. Besides your articles are only on currency and not stating how nature produces a man made drug…
T Dog
August 25, 2018 at 8:41 pm
Michael, how often do you specifically test your dogs for cocaine…and why?
michael
August 26, 2018 at 1:06 am
That second article you posed as a viable source of information says the “bus driver” said he handled “several hundred pounds” of cash that day. That has to be the biggest line of crap ever. What kind of bus company has the “driver” handle hundreds of pounds of cash? Who pays super large fees to ride the bus? Why would anyone want to rob a bank if the bus driver is hauling around hundreds of pounds of cash? Hundreds of pounds of cash assuming 1’s, 5’s, $ 10’s which people would pay the fare in, would be a few hundred thousand dollars for just a one day trip around town for 8 hours seems really far fetched. The driver couldnt make that much in a month if his bus was 5 blocks long and hustled his ass off. Your a lame duck buddy try again..
Andy
August 26, 2018 at 10:11 am
It’s the degenerate strip club guy again. Hey, you never did tell us the date the legislature put 3 on the ballot. I’ve asked this question 10 times because he said nothing gets on the ballot unless it goes through the legislature . He also proved his ignorance on Florida gaming. So he is a moron who simply spouts off about subjects he knows nothing about. Pay him no mind whatsoever.
Andy
August 26, 2018 at 4:32 pm
Sure is funny reading michael talk about ” a line of crap” this is a guy who has repeatedly shown his ignorance in his comments. I ask AGAIN, what is the date that the legislature put amendment 3 on the ballot?
Andy
August 28, 2018 at 6:08 pm
Through the coca plant moron, you have such a way of proving your srupidity
Don Goldstein
August 23, 2018 at 12:23 pm
It is amazing that this inhumane industry can attempt to justify 400+ drug positives in greyhounds, including 70 cocaine positives. It is time to end this travesty masquerading as a “sport” and free these wonderful dogs from their confinement. #YesOn13.
Andy
August 23, 2018 at 10:02 pm
What is amazing is that you and your fraudster friends are still conning people out of their hard earned money after all these years. Blackmail, racketeering, fraud, hopefully you will all be in prison one day
Don Lies
August 24, 2018 at 12:54 am
how many test were tampered with by the guy that quit and started working for Greed2K, he has a coke history and test cam back as none canine urine
Carey Theil
August 23, 2018 at 12:23 pm
There is a steady drumbeat of greyhound drug positives. Every year, dogs test positive for serious drugs including cocaine, Lidocaine, Novocaine, Oxycodone and Oxymorphone.
Rather than address this problem, greyhound racers use makeshift excuses and conspiracy theories to try to avoid responsibility. They have repeatedly attacked the state drug testing program, and even had their lobbyists circulate a bill to legalize small amounts of cocaine.
The greyhound racing industry is incapable of reform, and that’s why citizens will vote Yes on 13 in November.
Steven M Grabarczyk
August 23, 2018 at 1:29 pm
Yea Cary because you know more than a judge and a renowned scientist your schtick is getting old and Floridians are not stupid. See you know ALL of this but to further your agenda you and your wife need to lie. So your are here in this forum telling people that Judge Stevenson is wrong and so is Dr. Tobin. Where is YOUR evidence to back up your claims here? You have NONE
So here you go. Have you EVER told the TRUTH once in your life????
Dr. Thomas Tobin, a veterinarian, pharmacologist, and
toxicologist, testified that trace amounts of cocaine are
present virtually everywhere in North American human society.
Dr. Tobin stated that less than 50 ng/mL of urinary BZE is
indicative of nothing more than that the subject lives in North
America. Dr. Tobin testified that a very small concentration of
cocaine metabolites in the urine is likely attributable to
environmental contamination. Dr. Tobin stated that when the
concentration is below pharmacological significance, it should
not be called a positive. He noted that in human drug testing,
a sample is first screened at 150 ng/mL and then confirmed at
100 ng/mL, at which point it is reported as positive. Dr. Tobin
could think of no scientific reason why there should be a
regulatory reporting threshold for humans but not for racing
animals.
Source: http://www.supportgreyhounds.org/letters/ruling3718.pdf
Steven M Grabarczyk
August 23, 2018 at 1:32 pm
And if that wasn’t enough TRUTH for you, suppose since you like calling people “idiots” “crackpots” that Dr. Cole is one also?????
Dr. Cole also conceded that levels of cocaine below
100 (ng/mL) would be very unlikely to have any effect on a
racing animal’s performance, and that such low levels could be
the result of environmental contamination. Of the 24 positive
tests cited against Petitioners, the highest concentration of a
cocaine metabolite was 36.5 ng/mL. Even that appeared to be an
outlier, as most of the concentrations were in the range of 10
to 15 ng/mL.
Come on Carey, for once, give us some scientific evidence, not your tired old BS LIES.
Carey Theil
August 23, 2018 at 1:47 pm
I knew you would come here and defend these cocaine positives, Steve. You will literally defend any bad thing that happens to greyhounds.
In his CV, Tom Tobin brags about defeating a federal anti-corruption horse racing bill in 1983. He also touts winning the “Man of the Year” award, given to him in 1995 and 1999 by an industry group, the National Horsemen’s Benevolent and Protective Association.
Tobin’s “environmental contamination” theory has not been actually documented in a single case. It wasn’t documented in the case you are citing. He testified in support of this theory, which is wrong.
It’s my understanding, after talking to another expert who is more qualified than Tobin, that he has attempted to show some calculations to illustrate that the amount of exposure required is very small but his calculations are incorrect and heavily weighted in favor of his argument. Specifically, he miscalculated the amount of the drug in the body at the time of sample collection and does not account for the drug which has already been eliminated from the body when the sample is collected.
I realize that industry shills, like you, love this flawed theory because it is a way for the dog racing industry to avoid responsibility. It won’t work, though.
This isn’t the only conspiracy theory YOU have circulated. The most bizarre theory accused someone of having a criminal history, except it was the wrong person. I’m also amused by the “It was human DNA” conspiracy theory, which overlooks the fact that tests like that often DON’T pick up any DNA whatsoever.
Love Hounds
August 23, 2018 at 2:09 pm
Can someone tell me why someone would deliberately drug a dog? I don’t understand the benefit in doing so. Also, are these just randomly done? Random dogs on random days or prior to a race?
Marie
August 23, 2018 at 2:34 pm
So are you also calling Dr. Cynthia Cole, the previous director of the testing lab at UF, a liar also? At an administrative hearing, Dr. Cole testified that “…levels of cocaine below 100 (ng/mL) would be very unlikely to have any effect on a racing animal’s performance, and that such low levels could be the result of environmental contamination. ….” Or maybe you, Grey2K and Protect Dogs13 know this and that explains why you never disclose the drug levels found in the analyzed samples.. That would muddy the waters….You give 1% of the facts which is enough to grab attention but leave out the rest of the story.
Carey Theil
August 23, 2018 at 2:45 pm
Dr. Cole is also giving an opinion, which is apparently based on Tobin’s flawed theory.
By the way, Tobin’s own research indicates that when multiple metabolites are present it is evidence that the drug actually passed through the racing animal. At least one of the dogs that tested positive for cocaine in Jacksonville, WW’s Flicka, tested positive for multiple metabolites.
Part of the problem here is that dog racing promoters like you are LOOKING for reasons to excuse this behavior. That’s why crazy conspiracy theories like Steve’s take off so quickly. You start with a false position – that everything about dog racing is absolutely wonderful, and then invent facts to fit your false reality.
Tobin has an interest in promoting his flawed theory, the racing industry has an interest in using his flawed theory, and you have an interest in believing it. Meanwhile, dogs continue to test positive for drugs, while you enable the people who should be held responsible.
Stephen
August 23, 2018 at 2:47 pm
What kind of drugs were in your wife’s system when she attempted suicide in 1992?
Love Hounds
August 23, 2018 at 2:53 pm
Carey,
Would you be able to answer my question above?
Thx
Marie
August 23, 2018 at 4:16 pm
It seems that Dr Cole (DVM, PhD, DACVCP) has enough experience & education of her own to give undisputed & credible testimony.
You shouldn’t belittle the education of this woman and resort to saying she has to defer to theory of a man, Dr. Tobin…
Andy
August 23, 2018 at 5:28 pm
Hey Mr Stiel, you still haven’t commented on being aligned with ANIMAL LIBERATION FRONT, nor have you commented on being implicated in the blackmail scheme in Virginia, OUTRIGHT TRICKERATION. Your sham amendment is DEAD
Carey Theil
August 23, 2018 at 5:35 pm
Thanks to Andy and Stephen for showing the entire world what kind of people are running the No on 13 campaign.
Andy
August 23, 2018 at 5:51 pm
No, the pale bald headed Mr Potato head won’t answer that, he won’t answer to being aligned with ANIMAL LIBERATION FRONT either, nor will he answer questions concerning blackmail, or his wife being a confirmed liar. Jugde Gievers saw right through these frauds, as will Supreme Court. OUTRIGHT TRICKERATION, that is the way of the worldwide leader in lies and fraud
Joe T
August 24, 2018 at 12:48 am
You forget to mention the number of test over the same period, less than a.01 % positive due to environmental exposure, Talk about over looking the facts with your lies and deceit,
Steve
August 24, 2018 at 9:35 am
Cary Thiel,
Why don’t you post your more qualified experts findings on here. Discrediting an expert toxicologist. Probably because you’re lying and no such expert testimony exists. You also should have had your expert at the said trial then not just the initial but also the appeals. It’s hard to lie in court, in fact it’s perjury and illegal.
steve grabarczyk
August 25, 2018 at 8:46 pm
Then post the paper, stop talking about crap and actually post something insightful instead of your unsubstantiated drivel. Like it or not Theil, Tobin is the foremost expert. It’s amazing how you spout off your exceptional scientific knowledge, but wont debate either myself or Parker. Must be tiring that every time you open your mouth you lie. Post a link to a court case where a judge agreed that its not environmental contamination. With you its always “the judge is wrong” “that vet is wrong”
“that scientist is full of crap” “oh he is a white supremacist” “I am a dog track promoter” Seriously you need to get over yourself, you really don’t know that much, which is why you are nothing but a two bit charlatan making a living off other peoples money. Post a freaking link to back up your stance, and not a Freddy BS special. #pathetic
Andy
August 26, 2018 at 1:36 pm
A big thank you to Judge Gievers for recognizing a fraud for what it is, which is anything grey2scam touches
Steven Grab Macyzk
August 23, 2018 at 3:44 pm
Nowhere in these investigations do they state that the amount of cocaine detected equals the amount ingested. That’s impossible to know. All we know is that cocaine metabolites were 100% detected in the systems of all these greyhounds. That’s a serious charge. The amount at the time of the test, after the drug has been consumed and used in the body of the greyhound, is beside the point. It’s ridiculous to pretend that the detected amount was the exact amount given. For the vet not to address this point is a serious omission. The official position of the Department of Business and Professional Regulation, Division of Pari-Mutuel Wagering is that “it is much more likely that a prohibited substance is provided to a racing animal purposely by the animal’s trainer.”
Pages 6-7: https://www.doah.state.fl.us/DocDoc/2017/005238/17005238_237_10162017_16581518_e.pdf
Carey Theil
August 23, 2018 at 5:26 pm
Love Hounds, as long as dog racing has existed people have tried to fix races using drugs. It’s human nature. Greed.
The industry has repeatedly challenged the state drug testing program, rather than accept responsibility for these greyhound drug positives. As a result, the process has changed in recent years. Samples used to be collected before races, now I believe they are collected after races.
Not every dog is tested. In 2016, there were fewer samples tested than there were races. In other words, there wasn’t even a test for each race. If someone tried to fix a dog race in Florida, it’s unlikely they would be caught under the current system.
Love Hounds
August 23, 2018 at 6:50 pm
Steven..THAT was a dick move, lazy and served no purpose.
Michael
August 24, 2018 at 5:12 pm
So what your saying is the good doctor is implying that we all have cocaine in our systems since we all live in north america.. LMAO… You guys are so full of crap its unbelievable. .
Andy
August 23, 2018 at 6:02 pm
What the steady drumbeat is of, as so rightly called is OUTRIGHT TRICKERATION
Grey2k is a scam
August 24, 2018 at 1:00 am
how many were because of your buddy that worked testing them and quit now, he has a history of coke problems, sounds like something dirty greed2k would do, Keep your wife away from the trains when they pull it off the ballot
Axelskater
August 24, 2018 at 2:12 pm
Ms. Thiel, There is a “steady drumbeat” (to use your phrase) of sexual misconduct, harassment & exploitation in the leadership of the Humane Society of the United States, but you took their money anyway. Or is forcing women into compromising situations and then taking advantage of them okay in your book, as long as the HSUS check clears…?
Andy
August 24, 2018 at 3:13 pm
There is also the ” steady drumbeat” of fraud, scamming, and lies that has been Mr Stiel’s stock in trade since confirmed liar dorkchak’s supposed accident. The video is nauseating as she recounts the ” accident” that in court she has no memory of. The fraud evidence is miles long, anyone can see what liars they are, Judge Gievers caught them at it so they start attacking her, which will be good for us in SC eyes. They know their sham amendment is on life support, but saying so will dry up donations, and they can’t have that.
To anyone reading trying to make an informed opinion, ask yourself why he refuses to accept Mr Parker’s debate challenge. He is simply a lying keyboard warrior, blackmailer, and aligned with ALF
Catherine Oglesby
August 26, 2018 at 5:52 pm
I have been reading these comments for several days trying to make an informed opinion so decided to do as the gentleman says and google about the blackmail and animal liberation front.
What I found is exactly what he says, grey2k is obviously a scam. They have a history of dishonesty going back for years. I even found a video of an Ohio congressman calling them out for lying. And yes, Miss Dorchak’s picture is right there on the ALF website, she even gave a speech at their convention.
Their refusal to debate Mr Parker says it all, I don’t know much about greyhound racing, but I sure know dishonesty when I see it.
Craig Laginess
August 26, 2018 at 6:27 pm
Catherine,
I’m glad that you are seeing through Grey2k’s hot air. Even though I’m not a citizen of Florida nor do I have a financial interest in the greyhounds, I do enjoy watching them run. I’m supporting the industry because I’ve adopted seven greyhounds and know the truth.
Andy
August 26, 2018 at 10:13 am
That’s what you think ANIMAL LIBERATION FRONT supporter, only 2 percent chance it’s even on the ballot after judge Gievers caught your OUTRIGHT TRICKERATION
Melissa Z
August 23, 2018 at 1:08 pm
The numbers of greyhound deaths and drug-positive tests add up to the inescapable conclusion that the dog racing industry is inherently inhumane. Dog racing needs to end. So I’m voting YES on Amd13. No more doping. No more deaths. No more dog racing. Yes on 13.
Sonia Stratemann
August 23, 2018 at 1:33 pm
The fact that drug positives have quadrupled is proof that the cruel and inhumane treatment of racing greyhounds is only getting worse, not better.
It is time for the drugging, injuries and confinement to end! Voters will finally have the chance to protect greyhounds by voting YES in November.
Love Hounds
August 23, 2018 at 2:50 pm
That in itself make me question the legitimacy of these positives. Why on earth, knowing these dogs will be tested would they risk it? Quadrupled?! There has to be something else going on here. It doesn’t make ANY sense.
Carey Theil
August 23, 2018 at 5:29 pm
Love Hounds, because it’s likely your dog won’t be tested. In 2016, there were fewer tests than there were races. It’s also possible these cocaine positives are from human cocaine use in the kennels.
I spoke at length with Dr. Tobin directly about these positives a year ago. He essentially admitted to me that they were likely from human cocaine use. That’s what HE means when he refers to “innocent environmental contamination.”
I told Tobin that greyhound kennel workers using cocaine would be a humane concern. He disagreed. Once again: denial, rationalization, excuse, conspiracy theory. The industry will do ANYTHING to avoid responsibility for all of the bad things that happen to dogs.
Yes on 13- Not Welcome Here
August 24, 2018 at 10:37 am
“In 2016 there were fewer tests than there were races.” I wonder why that is, since there attempts after every race? Oh yeah, thats because you can’t make a greyhound do ANYTHING that they don’t want to do. They don’t want to tinkle into the cup? Then the state official who collects the samples will have to try again next time. You CAN’T force a greyhound to do anything…
spaceygrey
August 23, 2018 at 5:32 pm
Yea, and the timing of the sudden spike in positives just in time for them to launch this campaign and team up with hsus, who already has a history of witness tampering and rico act violations, isn’t suspicious at all.
Carey Theil
August 23, 2018 at 6:03 pm
LOL. Here come the conspiracy theories. Hold on, let me find my tinfoil hat.
Evan
August 23, 2018 at 6:08 pm
Don’t try to gaslight Carey.
Evan
August 23, 2018 at 6:32 pm
Yep, Keep gaslighting.
Andy
August 23, 2018 at 7:25 pm
Conspiracy theories, , yea, like your blackmail attempt, that is fact, like your wife being a confirmed liar, another fact, your partners in crime HSUS being charged with racketeering and fined 15 million, another fact, grey2k aligned with ALF, another fact.
Anyoe wanting TRUTH google ” west virginia blackmail grey2k” see what you find, google ” christine dorchak animal liberation front’, see what you find. As always these crooks excel at OUTRIGHT TRICKERATION
B. Axell
August 23, 2018 at 3:11 pm
Why don’t you and Carey Theil have a live streamed debate with some Racing Professionals? It would open a lot of peoples eyes to the entire truth of the situation.
Carey Theil
August 23, 2018 at 5:30 pm
We’re talking directly to Florida voters Axell, while you spend time spamming our page. Good luck with that.
Mike Jawarski
August 23, 2018 at 11:55 pm
Carey, why are you afraid to debate the issue of greyhound racing? I understand that John Parker has challenged you to a debate and you’re ignoring him. Why is that?
Craig Laginess
August 24, 2018 at 6:22 am
Mike,
We already know why Carey won’t debate. His lies will be exposed for all of the public to see and that he is a COWARD, LIAR and THEIF.
Lori
August 24, 2018 at 8:26 am
Because he can’t control the conversation in a debate. Look at how they run their Facebook page. Make one comment disagreeing with them. Your comment is quickly deleted and you are banned from commenting again. But you can make comments calling people in the greyhound racing community the most vile names, threaten judges and say they’ve been paid off, and threaten to steal dogs and those comments are allowed to remain. Even here, he can choose what to respond to and what to ignore. There would be no hiding in a debate and he knows that he would be exposed.
Andy
August 23, 2018 at 6:43 pm
He won’t debate because he is a liar and a coward, has rebuffed countless opportunities to debate John Parker, when his cohort Lying Carlos bailed on him for a radio interview he cried after he got slammed so they wouldn’t air it. His excuse here is ” we are talking to the voters”, when in reality he is lying to the voters, just like the amendment OUTRIGHT TRICKERATION
Francesca
August 23, 2018 at 5:29 pm
Look, it’s the buffet lover, your amendment is dead,liar
Carey Theil
August 23, 2018 at 5:39 pm
Francesca, I can’t decide if your comment is half-witted drivel, or some kind of brilliant performance art. LOL
Mike Jawarski
August 24, 2018 at 6:44 pm
Carey, I think it’s a reference to your obsession with adult theaters, truck stop restrooms and male strip clubs.
Craig Laginess
August 24, 2018 at 6:54 pm
Mike,
It could also be his dressing in drag fetish also. No wait I don’t want to insult people who dress in drag by lumping them in with Carey.
Francesca
August 23, 2018 at 6:14 pm
Of course the nut case lying buffet lover has to get her 2 cents worth in, she hated putting down the fork to do so
George Bova
August 23, 2018 at 8:56 pm
It’s just more #OutrightTrickeration by Carey Theil and his shill, Sonia “For Hire” Stratemann. A judge knows the sort of deception you’re attempting on Florida voters. Your personal credibility to comment will never recover from the mess you’ve created for yourselves. Sad for both of you.
Axelskater
August 24, 2018 at 2:16 pm
Quadrupled huh…Hmmm. Yet still like what – maybe less than half of the horse racing industry. The fat lady may sing on the horse industry instead if y’all keep drugging those race horses sweetie.
Steve
August 24, 2018 at 3:42 pm
“At least some dogs that test positive for cocaine may be exposed to the drug through human transference. Positive test results often involve small amounts of cocaine. ” from Grey2Ks page.
Sonia, What kind of crates do you use to secure your dogs ? Do you not consider it confinement when you put yours in the same crates they use at the race tracks.
Carla Wilson
August 23, 2018 at 2:07 pm
Greyhounds deserve to be treated humanely and with respect like every other dog. More than 400 greyhounds testing positive for cocaine?! Enough said! And one of many reasons why the public will vote YES on 13
in November.
Lori
August 23, 2018 at 2:19 pm
Nowhere in this article does it say that 400 greyhounds tested positive for cocaine. As one of the so-called protect dogs people, you should know what your own ads say.
Can anyone tell me what the total number of tests were in the same time period?
Carla Wilson
August 23, 2018 at 3:40 pm
“in the past decade, Florida racing greyhounds have tested drug positive more than 400 times, including 70 cocaine positives.” STILL, Enough said! And one of many reasons why the public will vote YES on 13 in November.
Yes on 13- Not Welcome Here
August 24, 2018 at 9:53 pm
Service Greyhounds deserve to be and are entitled to be at public events and venues, such as the Seminole Hob Nob.
You know… The one where Carla Wilson and her husband Bryan Wilson attempted to have the service greyhounds removed from… Sick, sorry and sad…
Mark Abrams
August 23, 2018 at 2:42 pm
and how pray tell carey how do you explain that upon further testing of a sample that tested positive, a DNA test of the same sample was completed, showing that the sample was not even from a dog.
Carey Theil
August 23, 2018 at 2:58 pm
That’s wrong Mark. The test you’re referring to found no DNA. If you spend five minutes reading up on this topic, you will discover that is is very common for DNA to not be found in urine. You and your allies have either misunderstood those results, or intentionally misrepresented them.
B. Axell
August 23, 2018 at 3:14 pm
Why don’t you and Sonia Stratemann have a live streamed debate with some Racing Professionals? It would open a lot of peoples eyes to the entire truth of the situation.
Mark Abrams
August 23, 2018 at 3:16 pm
” We established a method for extracting DNA from urine samples stored at −20 °C without using any additives or procedures, which is consistent with how samples are required to be managed for doping control.” https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/dta.2126
Carey Theil
August 23, 2018 at 3:25 pm
Yes Mark, there is a lot of research now that is aimed at successfully doing this. It is finding some success. It’s also common for DNA to not be extracted from urine. It’s also a fact that the testing you are referring to found no DNA, which you are trying to misrepresent. Why do you feel the need to always enable this cruel industry? What do you get out of this?
Mark Abrams
August 23, 2018 at 4:13 pm
so what you are saying there is no proof that any of the samples that tested positive even came from dogs? Isn’t that considered reasonable doubt?
George Bova
August 23, 2018 at 9:26 pm
What does Carey Theil get from demonizing other people? It’s a lot more obvious than mischaracterizing lab results. Through Grey2k, Carey gets $$$$$. Lots and lots of $$$$$. And how much of those donation dollars from innocent animal lovers does Carey spend helping adoption groups? Less than 2 cents of every $1. And that’s just one more way you know you can never trust Carey because he can’t help but lie about everything — #OutrightTrickeration is what the judge called his biggest lie of them all. The judge is wise; Carey lies.
Andy
August 23, 2018 at 5:31 pm
Misrepresented is your stock in trade Mr Stiel, but it’s not working in Florida….. OUTRIGHT TRICKERATION
Yes on 13- Not Welcome Here
August 24, 2018 at 10:46 am
The results of the test did not say that there was no DNA in the sample, it said that there was no CANINE DNA in the sample, and no quantifiable DNA from any animal species included in the MEAT ID testing. There is a strong possibility that the sample in question was tampered with and switched out for a contaminated human sample. And coincidentally, at that same time, the head of the DBPR deptartment who oversees the samples’ chain of custody resigned and is now employed by the proponents of Amendment 13. Looks like sabotage to me…
Andy
August 26, 2018 at 4:51 pm
Right, such a liar as you wouldn’t do anything underhanded, would you. I guess that’s why you’re guilty of OUTRIGHT TRICKERATION
Jeff Sonksen
August 23, 2018 at 3:09 pm
This is the fourth time Grey2k and the Humane Society have stolen my footage. Watch my videos in context and you’ll surly see that greyhounds are absolutely not abused. These groups are completely corrupt and use lies to trick the public into donating their money. Making it my mission to alert the public about this scam. Greyhounds are tested forensically. No one else is tested this way because trace amounts of anything can show up in a drug test. This is a prime example of the Animal Rights Groups using lies and propaganda to trick the public. Before this is over I will sue the pants off Grey2k and the Humane Society.
B. Axell
August 23, 2018 at 3:13 pm
Jeff, just make sure that their use of your footage doesn’t fall under “Fair Use”. You COULD probably get away with suing them for “Defamation of Character”. As a matter of fact, EVERY racing professional should go after them for that.
Carey Theil
August 23, 2018 at 3:18 pm
Jeff, you ALSO circulated the strange conspiracy theory that included false criminal drug allegations, but named the wrong person. You made an entire video about it, and even did little imaginary lines of cocaine. It’s still online! I have a feeling we will see that appear before the campaign is over … Your conspiracy video is so strange, it would be comical except for the fact that you are enabling the cruel treatment of dogs.
George Bova
August 23, 2018 at 9:32 pm
Weren’t you the one Carey (or maybe it was your wife?) who accused Jeff of being a white supremacist? In the arena of baseless allegations, you’re in a class all of your own. This darkest of lies makes your #OutrightTrickeration the judge stopped cold seem positively tame by comparison. Your credibility to accuse anyone is long gone, Carey.
Carey Theil
August 24, 2018 at 1:25 pm
You’re absolutely right we called Sonksen out for his ties to a white nationalist.
A white nationalist named Eric Wilson posted on Sonksen’s Facebook page last month. He referred to animal advocates as “cu*ts” and called Sonksen “my boy.”
This same guy uses the hashtag #WhitePride, has talked about a “new Waco” and said “the time of complacency is over.”
Sonksen didn’t remove this hideous statement by a white nationalist. Instead, he thanked the white nationalist, and said his comment was “awesome.”
To this day, Sonksen hasn’t apologized for this.
Source: https://imgur.com/a/oXWOIhk
Source: https://imgur.com/a/fWGblrs
Source: https://imgur.com/a/qZodRVB
Andy
August 24, 2018 at 3:46 pm
I don’t remember you apologizing for death threats on your page, or threats against the judge. You really are a piece of pathetic scum you know. Want to finally talk about blackmail, or your alignment with ALF? Or accept Mr Parker’s challenge. Of course not, because you are a COWARD who has never worked a day in his life. Your OUTRIGHT TRICKERATION has been exposed in Florida, and you are going to LOSE
Mike Jawarski
August 24, 2018 at 6:48 pm
What about all of the racist comments by current Grey2k board members Eric Jackson and Fred Barton? And former board member Karyn Zoldan. Nobody has ever apologized for their racist comments. Based on the make up of the Grey2k board, you and your wife must also be racists.
George Bova
August 24, 2018 at 9:38 pm
How silly, Carey. With equal credibility, I could “tie” Carey Theil, Christine Dorchak and Grey2k to Animal Liberation Front — a TERRORIST organization as classified by the F.B.I. (and others) for the deaths and wanton mayhem you’ve supported across the U.S. and the entire world.
It’s pathetic Carey you attempt character assassination in this fashion. Very sad and utterly in-character for someone steeped in so many lies and so much deception, it was an easy decision by the Florida Supreme Court to DENY your request to speak at their hearing next week. The circuit judge was so disgusted with your deception, she called it #OutrightTrickeration deliberately meant to fool Florida voters. Every true dog lover is disgusted by you Carey, once they know the truth like the Florida judiciary already knows it.
Your game is weak — and getting weaker — but who can deny you didn’t have it coming?
Yes on 13- Not Welcome Here
August 24, 2018 at 10:01 pm
And yet Grey2K and Yes on 13 allow and encourage people to post comments on their pages wishing for and threatening physical harm towards those who care for the greyhounds. They allow comments from their supporters threatening Judge Gievers’ well being to remain on their page…
Andy
August 26, 2018 at 6:01 pm
The campaign is over Wednesday
Lori
August 23, 2018 at 3:39 pm
Jeff is right. If you really want to help animals, donate directly to your local shelter.
Carla Wilson
August 23, 2018 at 3:38 pm
“in the past decade, Florida racing greyhounds have tested drug positive more than 400 times, including 70 cocaine positives.” STILL, Enough said! And one of many reasons why the public will vote YES on 13 in November.
Lori
August 23, 2018 at 3:42 pm
So when you said 400 dogs tested positive for cocaine above, what was that? More TRICKERATION! And you didn’t answer my question about how many total tests there were in that time period.
George Bova
August 24, 2018 at 10:00 pm
Sad how Carla Wilson outs herself as one of the duped by Carey Theil’s #OutrightTrickeration using bogus cocaine dog tests by an inept (if not corrupt) Florida gaming regulatory office, their findings tossed out. He tried to deceive every Florida voter with the Amendment 13 Protect WAGERING law that a Florida judge tossed out calling it #OutrightTrickeration so at least the Florida courts are protecting Carla and the Greyhounds from Carey and his lies. Any gratitude for this Carla? You owe the rest of us.
Bryan Wilson
August 23, 2018 at 4:07 pm
The racing industry continues to show that it is willing to literally excuse ANYTHING to continue keeping their horrible industry alive and these greyhounds in unacceptable confinement as their business slowly goes down the drain. It is only the requirement in Florida to keep running dogs that has made greyhound racing exist into the 21st century, as more and more compassionate gamblers seek other forms of entertainment. It should be unacceptable by everyone involved in these greyhound’s lives that even 1 drug positive is found let alone over 400 HUNDRED! In Florida, we see the industry justify, obfuscate and in many cases even attempt to pass legislation to legalize a drug positive instead of cleaning up the industry and their own messes. This just goes to show the public that they care more about the money than the well-being of the dogs.
Love Hounds
August 23, 2018 at 4:16 pm
Maybe I’m naive. Something doesn’t make sense to me. Why would folks drug these dogs in the first place? Sonia stated these incidents have quadrupled ?! Why on earth would anyone risk a positive result?To what end?
It just doesn’t add up, IMO.
Andy
August 23, 2018 at 5:33 pm
That’s because they LIE sir…. OUTRIGHT TRICKERATION
Patti K
August 23, 2018 at 5:15 pm
So 400 drug tests out of how many given within the same timeframe? Carey, do you know the correct number?
To Love Hounds: there is no reason to give greyhounds performance enhancing drugs. The anabolic steroids are low dose birth control.
Lori
August 23, 2018 at 5:27 pm
According to an article I found about the courts ruling against Florida’s drug testing rules, an average of 3500 samples are collected each month. Over a decade, that works out to 420,000 samples. Percent of samples that tested positive for cocaine? 0.017% And some of these were thrown out of court!
https://www.avma.org/News/JAVMANews/Pages/180515k.aspx
Carey Theil
August 23, 2018 at 5:41 pm
The cases that were dismissed were based on a technicality after the industry attacked the entire state drug testing program.
Lori
August 23, 2018 at 6:31 pm
Yeah, just skip right over the 0.017% part. I posted the link so people could read it for themselves.
Andy
August 23, 2018 at 7:41 pm
Right Mr Potato Head, the same way Judge Gievers threw it out on a technicality. Very few are buying your lies
George Bova
August 23, 2018 at 9:11 pm
It got thrown out because the testing procedures are flawed. If Florida had a REAL attorney general, she would be rooting out the corruption in that department this very day… and Carey Theil would be one of the defendants.
#OutrightTrickeration
wallst55
August 25, 2018 at 9:29 pm
Dr. Cole also conceded that levels of cocaine below
100 (ng/mL) would be very unlikely to have any effect on a
racing animal’s performance, and that such low levels could be
the result of environmental contamination. Of the 24 positive
tests cited against Petitioners, the highest concentration of a
cocaine metabolite was 36.5 ng/mL. Even that appeared to be an
outlier, as most of the concentrations were in the range of 10
to 15 ng/mL.
Dr. Thomas Tobin, a veterinarian, pharmacologist, and
toxicologist, testified that trace amounts of cocaine are
present virtually everywhere in North American human society.
Dr. Tobin stated that less than 50 ng/mL of urinary BZE is
indicative of nothing more than that the subject lives in North
America. Dr. Tobin testified that a very small concentration of
cocaine metabolites in the urine is likely attributable to
environmental contamination. Dr. Tobin stated that when the
concentration is below pharmacological significance, it should
not be called a positive. He noted that in human drug testing,
a sample is first screened at 150 ng/mL and then confirmed at
100 ng/mL, at which point it is reported as positive. Dr. Tobin
could think of no scientific reason why there should be a
regulatory reporting threshold for humans but not for racing
animals.
Kathy Edwards
August 23, 2018 at 5:32 pm
Please understand that limits of detection play a huge role in the perception of positive tests. As our analytical instrumentation becomes more sensitive, tests show positives in such low numbers that one really does have to put it into perspective. That requires analysis by a skilled scientist. And I know this because I have worked in the analytical industry so don’t think I am just making this up.
Now I find it super interesting that when I look at those of us who support greyhound racing, I don’t see greasy slimy gamblers or fat cat owners. I see good people who love these dogs and the people who breed and create them. I see people like me who know that you can create an amazing dog like my retiree through abuse and neglect. I see owners of these wonderful dogs whose hearts would break if the industry goes away.
And when I look at the opponents, I see people who scam the soft-hearted. I see people who would as likely kill a shelter dog as place it. I see people who would take my Spanish rescues and literally kill them rather than give them a chance at a happy life.
I don’t buy into the lies told by PETA or Grey2K. I love with a greyhound and he blesses my life. I have two galgos and they teach me humility and love for those less fortunate. I have a Spanish podenco who is broken but I am literally giving him a second chance at life.
So don’t listen to the lies and the money scams. Support racing greyhounds and the people who bring such joy into our lives.
Carey Theil
August 23, 2018 at 6:05 pm
I honestly don’t know how to respond to this Kathy. Your characterization of GREY2K USA and the people working to end greyhound racing is just wrong. I’m sorry that you’re defending this cruelty. You’re on the wrong side of history, and don’t realize it.
Andy
August 23, 2018 at 6:20 pm
Right, ‘ it’s just wrong’. Ignore all the mountain of evidence that’s it’s wrong, such as OUTRIGHT TRICKERATION, Or hrey2scum being aligned with ANIMAL LIBERATION FRONT. Such crooks
Craig Laginess
August 23, 2018 at 7:47 pm
Carey,
Why won’t you debate? Afraid that more of the fine citizens of Florida and the rest of the world will see through your lies and end your money stream? As far as I see it you are nothing but a coward. We all know the truth and it isn’t what your organization is preaching. Didn’t your parents teach you to always tell the truth? From my recliner here in Michigan I have gathered at least 25 no votes directly. #votenoon13 #grey2klies
George Bova
August 23, 2018 at 9:18 pm
Grey2K spends less than 2 cents of every donation dollar to help find Greyhounds a home. Carey Theil spends more on his phone lines than he does helping adoption groups. If you truly love dogs, give 100% of your donations to your local shelter and be sure to tell all your friends too not to give Theil even one thin dime. Grey2k is #OutrightTrickeration.
Axelskater
August 24, 2018 at 2:27 pm
Is it REALLY all about greyhounds C. Thiel? I thought it was about gambling. Isn’t that what your little predatory gambling group tells people? Wait until the people know who is really in bed WITH casino interests, and gambling will EXPAND if the tracks close. Yeah – who hung out with Jeff Soffer on… June 7th was it for your little kick off in Miami? Was it you and Miss Clairol? Hanging out at the Fountainbleu – whose owner wants to put casinos in every city in Florida. Sad. Guess she doesn’t care if the reputation of “stop Predatory gambling” is trashed as long as she gets to continue her lifestyle. Stop predatory gambling my fanny. Your work will expand casino style gambling in Florida and give the residents of a state in which you don’t even LIVE more card rooms, more slot machines, and more crime. But don’t worry I am sure you will not be bothered since you live in Massachusetts
Lori
August 24, 2018 at 4:38 pm
I would say her characterization of Grey2k is spot on.
Sharon Dippel
August 23, 2018 at 6:15 pm
Numbers do not lie. The University of Florida reports 115,023 dogs and cats were euthanized in Florida Shelters during 2016. That is over 300 per day. Protect Dogs needs to do just that and donate monies to helping the Florida Shelters eliminate this practice. 2 Million dollars would go a long way to build and expand Shelters and promote adoption. Going after an industry that adopts out 95 % of their retires and does not use public shelters to hold these dogs is a waste of monies donated. The Public will see through your misinformation and eventually all involved will be shut down.
Eric Jackson
August 23, 2018 at 7:44 pm
There are many groups working to reduce the number of shelter animals killed, but that is not the point of this particular campaign. The adoption number you quoted has never been supported with facts. The only reason greyhounds don’t end up in shelters is because, for a long time, they were simply killed when they couldn’t be used for racing. A lot of shelters charge a fee for turning in a dog and any money spent on a non-racing dog is considered wasted by the industry.
The public is seeing the truth of the greyhound racing industry and it will all be shut down. The people will have a chance to speak in November.
Sharon Dippel
August 24, 2018 at 9:41 am
Eric Jackson, are you questioning the integrity of the University of Florida ? The Greyhound Industry had nothing to do with creating this report. https://sheltermedicine.vetmed.ufl.edu/files/2018/02/2016-Florida-Shelter-Animal-Census-Interim-Summary.pdf
Gets old hearing the same old false propaganda. Reality is that 300 animals a day are euthanized in the State of Florida. Protect Dogs needs to focus on the big picture and help the animals in need.
Greyhounds do not end up in Shelters due to the fact that we have an amazing adoption community across the United States working together to place Retired Racers into homes.
The public will see the truth, and it will not be your lies.
Eric Jackson
August 24, 2018 at 3:41 pm
Sharon, nobody is debating the number of cats and dogs taken in or killed by Florida shelters. There is nothing in that report that even remotely addresses the adoption rate of racing greyhounds.
Don Goldstein
August 23, 2018 at 8:02 pm
You are right, Sharon, those euthanized dogs and cats are a shame, but that does not alter the inhumane treatment of greyhounds in the industry that you support and justify. On average a greyhound dies at a Florida track every 3 days. There have been more than 400 drug positives, including 70 cocaine positives, in greyhounds in the last 10 years. We don’t know how many have been injured because the FGA blocked it while trying to float a bill to allow cocaine in greyhounds. You claim a 95% adoption but offer nor proof or records. What happened to all of the missing letters in the litters? (You know what I mean.) It is time for greyhound racing to end.
Andy
August 23, 2018 at 8:27 pm
The same old liars with the same old lies, we just love how you act like it is a done deal when it’s unlikely to even be on the ballot, let’s all say it together now…….. OUTRIGHT TRICKERATION> The great majority of these liars are no doubt vegans, except fat Sonya of course
Don Goldstein
August 23, 2018 at 9:24 pm
Judge Karen Gievers does not have a track record that I’d hang my hat on. I’m confident that the Supreme Court will see that Amendment 13 does what it says and says what it does, without making up words. And while I’m not vegan, many of my friends are and it is not a 4-letter word. Resorting to personal attacks tells the world what you are made of, Andy. I’d use your last name but you choose to hide that.
andy
August 23, 2018 at 9:49 pm
Judge Gievers has a much better reputation than you or your thieving crowd, we could not have asked for a stronger ruling. As for the Supreme Court, I doubt they will think highly of your liar in chief dorchak slandering one if their own. 95 percent chance they uphold the correct ruling. Notice how more of them are being tossed off the ballot? The evidence of OUTRIGHT TRICKERATION grows daily. How about your partners in crime HSUS being fined 15 million for RACKETEERING. Just like grey2 k aligned with ANIMAL LIBERATION FRONT. Deception isnt going to work this time fraudster
George Bova
August 23, 2018 at 10:13 pm
Amendment 13 is a protect WAGERING law, Don, dressed up to fool voters. It’s obvious to anyone who reads the actual text — not the ballot or the ballot summary, of course. And that’s why voters like you are being turned into dupes by the likes of Carey Theil — no stranger to lying about everything. The judge called it #OutrightTrickeration for its method of “hiding the ball”. Nobody deserves to be duped so please stop aligning with the very people who knew the truth and tried to get it onto the ballot regardless. The judge is wise; Carey lies.
Andy
August 24, 2018 at 12:46 am
You seem to forget who started slandering honest hard working people with their deception and flat out lies there sport, more evidence of OUTRIGHT TRICKERATION
Sharon Dippel
August 24, 2018 at 9:52 am
Don, I stand with 81 Greyhound Adoption groups across the United States that SUPPORT our Industry. You have 5 malcontent groups. Back at you, on the average 900 animals die every three days in the State of Florida. Way different number than my 1 greyhound. LOL… the dogs are not disappearing. There are waiting lists across the U.S. for our dogs. We are currently at a shortage in the adoption community. The reality is that 150,000 plus happy healthy dogs are on couches across the US. A mistreated or abused animal does not transition to family life. Suggest that you visit a shelter to look at abused and mistreated animals. This is where PROTECT Dogs needs to focus. 2 Million dollars can go a long way to help Shelter Dogs and Cats.
Sherry Mangold
August 23, 2018 at 7:39 pm
To Kathy Edwards: When I look at those involved in the racing industry, I see people who are making money by risking the welfare and the very lives of the greyhounds they race. I oppose greyhound racing. In my adulthood I have rescued and adopted 9 greyhounds from various tracks and fostered many, many more. Currently, I am blessed with a greyhound from the defunct Tucson track and 3 Galgos from Spain. My experience is that in spite of the horrendous backgrounds my Galgos have suffered, it is 2 of my rescued track hounds who have suffered more. Milagro, a female, was injected with testosterone (verifiable through my veterinarian) to the point that her vulva became so mis-shapen that she could not urinate without causing constant infection which, in turn, created intensive pain. Neither topical medications nor surgery diminished her pain. To relieve her from this torture, she had to be euthanized at the age of 6. Rico, my current greyhound was injured while racing. Another greyhound ran into Rico and knocked him off course, causing him to somersault 3 times. The result was a severe neck injury. The owner refused any kind of vet. service because “…the dog will never win again.” Indeed, like your Podenco, Rico was broken. But, it wasn’t Rico’s owner who loved him and paid for his vet. care. It wasn’t Milagro’s owner who loved her and paid for the medical attempts to make her life good again. I love all of my dogs, but those 2 racing greyhounds suffered much more lasting consequences than my 3 Galgos who escaped the horror of the Spanish hunters.
George Bova
August 23, 2018 at 9:05 pm
You might be aware that new regulations to enhance safety at Florida tracks was BLOCKED by the very same leaders who now try to deceive animal lovers with a law so duplicitous, the judge declared it #OutrightTrickeration for its method of “hiding the ball” from Florida voters. It’s a tragedy, Sherry, you’re aligned with such treacherous characters as Carey Theil, We care about the dogs; he doesn’t. Nobody deserves to be duped. Sad.
Sherry Mangold
August 23, 2018 at 11:11 pm
To George Bova: I am not going to become involved in any kind of back and forth with you. My experiences with the racing industry are exactly as I stated them. Two of my rescued greyhounds suffered at the hands of their owners and certainly not at the hands of Carey Theil. My dogs bore the pain and suffering. I was the one who cared for them throughout their ordeals and I was the one who paid the vet. bills. Now, who loves greyhounds? Mr. Theil is working to close the tracks. Closing the tracks means there would be no more infected, mis-shaped vulvas and no more neck injuries due to racing. Mr. Bova, the facts are as simple as that.
Andy
August 24, 2018 at 12:30 am
Except you prove NOTHING you say, such as all claims of abuse, where are the police reports? Never have you liars produced even ONE. Proof that your side engages in deception is right there in OUTRIGHT TRICKERATION, or CRAFTED TO MISLEAD. Mr Thiel is working only to scam people, as he has always done. Blackmail is one tool he has used in the past. The fact that he refuses to debate is ample proof he has not a leg to stand on, ONLY LIES.
Andy
August 24, 2018 at 12:33 am
Would you care to refute the truth, that dorchak is a documented LIAR, and aligned with ANIMAL LIBERATION FRONT?
George Bova
August 24, 2018 at 6:54 am
Sherry, I adopt racers and I foster them. I serve as an adoption VOLUNTEER and make no money from the enterprise of advocating for the breed — quite a contrast from Carey Theil — including rehabilitating injured racers. I know athletes well, especially runners, assume a certain amount of risk (I ended up in a cast with shin splints and and a broken tibia running cross country) so perhaps I better understand than you that risk and appreciate more the pure joy such athletes derive even while taking that risk.
My advice? Get off your couch and start living your life. You can start by visiting one of the kennels and observing the dozens of wagging tails both socializing with you in the pack and in the pre-race activities they love. It will be a load off your mind and make you a better human being too. You’ll experience genuine love — it’s what this world need more of — Best to you!
Fred Barton
August 24, 2018 at 7:37 am
In an industry based on money which treats innocent living creatures as commodities, a mere means to an end, it should surprise no one that those dogs will be subjected to all sorts of harmful things. From 4D meat to performance enhancing drugs, to God only knows what kinds of unhealthy concoctions, the idea is to win at all costs. And when that is no longer possible, the dog is discarded and a new one takes his or her place. The simple fact of greyhound racing is that the dogs are expendable in the more and more desperate chase of fewer and fewer dollars.
I am a Board member of GREY2K USA Worldwide, an organization that fights to save these marvelous creatures all over the globe. (you can learn more about us here: http://www.grey2kusa.org.) I have fostered and adopted rescued racing greyhounds since 1995. I cannot imagine abandoning any of them when they become injured, old or sick and yet this is routinely what happens to them at operating tracks and will continue to happen as long as racing is allowed to exist.
Fred Barton
Board Member
GREY2K USA Worldwide
George Bova
August 24, 2018 at 9:07 am
Glad you’re here, Fred. We’ve been expecting you. Since Carey Theil is watching, why not explain to Florida’s animal lovers:
1) Why less than 2 cents of every donation dollar they send to Grey2k goes towards animal adoptions? Is this disclosed to donors by Grey2k next to the “donate” button?
2) Why Grey2k’s IRS revenue statements indicate you’re spending more on PHONE LINES than on donations to shelters?
3) Why are over 80 Greyhound adoption groups (nearly all of them staffed by VOLUNTEERS) are already on the record urging Floridians to DEFEAT Amendment 13 in direct opposition to Grey2k? How can you characterize the racers as abandoned when so many adoption groups stand against you and a law a judge ruled is actually an initiative to Protect WAGERING, not dogs?
4) Why did a judge reviewing the law strike it from the ballot for its deliberate method of “hiding the ball” from Florida voters? Why did she declare the matter #OutrightTrickeration for the deception being used by its proponents like Grey2k?
Florida’s animal lovers deserve answers to these questions but Carey Theil only adds more lies in response. Hoping for more from you.
T Dog
August 24, 2018 at 2:15 pm
You belong to an organization based on money as well. Of course, it’s deceptively hidden under the guise of protecting Greyhounds. Money that does not go directly to the Greys but rather into furthering your manipulative message and pointing even MORE misdirected folks toward your donate button. I’ve seen the stats, the pie charts and graphs that shows exactly where your tainted money goes.
You’ll never convince critical thinkers that those in the industry are deliberately giving there dogs cocaine. It’s ludicrous. Makes absolutely NO sense. If it was given, as you folks indicate, as a performance enhancer why would it not be administered prior to a race? It hasn’t been though because as cocaine passes through the system, by hours and days it becomes weaker and less detectable. That’s why the tests are not finding cocaine itself but rather metabolites. Metabolites that can be present for up to five days in constantly lowering degrees. Again, why would someone give what you folks believe is a preformance enhancer DAYS before a race? It wouldn’t have any efficacy left.
Could there be another reasonable explanation?
Could the plant that ground up the 4D meat ( which, if you or your supporters feed kibble you are likely feeding to your dogs as well) have been exposed? Could a handler giving treats have filthy money residue on their hands? Undiagnosed Liver/ kidney disease? The Greyhounds well known, bizarre chemistry creating false positives in some cases? There’s TOO much we DON’T know to accuse an entire industry of knowingly coking up their dogs.
In my opinion, of course.
Fred Barton
August 24, 2018 at 3:38 pm
Well, we don’t accuse the entire industry of coking up their dogs. Making unfounded sweeping generalizations is your job, not ours. What we do accuse the entire industry of is the heartless commodification and exploitation of innocent greyhounds for profit and the cruel discarding of those dogs when they no longer make money for you.
Andy
August 24, 2018 at 3:59 pm
As you and your scam group engage in blackmail, fraud, theft, deception, OUTRIGHT TRICKERATION, alignment with racketeers, terrorists to scam money from people while trying to put hard working floridians in the unemployment line. Not going to happen though Freddie, I told you this wasn’t Massachusetts
Fred Barton
August 24, 2018 at 4:58 pm
I see you’ve added trickeration to your word a day vocabulary. You should thank Judge Geisler. She probably did more to expand your vocabulary than all your middle school teachers.
T Dog
August 24, 2018 at 5:17 pm
…not in so many words. But your carefully crafted message is broad enough that leaves that taste in the mouths of the public. Your friend Carey even makes a point of saying not every dog is even tested. Which only conveys that there are probably even more that we don’t know about.Right? Right.
You know full well that the dogs are not discarded, Fred. They flow into waiting adoption groups all over the US and Canada..just as they are destined to.
Not the typical life…far from your average house dog. But of course dogs can’t care about or envy what they don’t know about. That’s just us forcing our human emotions on them. All they know is that they are loved, happy and healthy.
Yes, I know all about the deaths and the injuries. But I also know if you were to take that same population of Racing Greyhounds and instead of putting them on the track for 3 years, you put them in family homes… those numbers would be significantly higher.
I’ve seen the veterinary associations statistics for pet dogs. Dogs being mauled, car accidents (both in and out of vehicle) fires, suffocation, poisoning, so on and on. While any injury or death is devastating and there is risk around every corner…I’d be far more inclined to have a dog in a safer environment, like a track with precautions in place. Muzzles, crates, groomed track, full time, knowledgeable care and on site vets than in an environment owned by people that know little about the breed.
Again…completely my opinion only.
I’m not with the racing industry in any capacity other than being lucky enough to adopt 2 marvellous retirees. My Greys were not abused in any way shape or form. Neglected dogs don’t act like this. 4 years on and my girl still looks to her crate for security and snoozes. She looks at me with disgust when I give her mere kibble and she gets excited as all get out, when I bring out her muzzle.
I do appreciate the conversation, Fred.
Thank you kindly.
Fred Barton
August 25, 2018 at 8:03 am
And why do they “flow into waiting adoption groups? Because they are no longer profitable and the industry has discarded them. Touting their support for adoption is the industry making a virtue of necessity. These dogs would be gone one way or another. Its only as the public learned what a cruel fate awaited unprofitable greyhounds that forced the industry to support adoption.
T Dog
August 24, 2018 at 9:59 pm
…not in so many words. But your carefully crafted message is broad enough that it certainly leaves that taste in the mouths of the public. Your friend Carey even makes a point of saying not every dog is even tested. Which only conveys that there are probably even more that we don’t know about.Right? Right.
You know full well that the dogs are not discarded, Fred. They flow into waiting adoption groups all over the US and Canada..just as they are supposed to.
Not the typical life…far from your average house dog. But of course they can’t care about or envy what they don’t know about. That’s just us forcing our human emotions on them. All they know is that they are loved, happy and healthy.
Yes, I know all about the deaths and the injuries. But I also know if you were to take that same population of Racing Greyhounds and instead of putting them on the track for 3 years, you put them in family homes… those numbers would be significantly higher.
I’ve seen the veterinary associations statistics for pet dogs. Dogs being mauled, car accidents (both in and out of vehicle) fires, suffocation, poisoning, so on and on. While any injury or death is devastating and there is risk around every corner…I’d be far more inclined to have a dog in a safer environment, like a track with precautions in place. Muzzles, crates, groomed track, full time, knowledgeable care and on site vets than in an environment owned by people that know much less about the breed and the do’s and don’ts.
Again…completely my opinion only.
I’m not with the racing industry in any capacity other than being lucky enough to adopt 2 marvellous retirees and fostered many others. These Greys were not abused in any way shape or form. Neglected dogs don’t act like this. 4 years on and my girl still looks to her crate for comfort and snoozes. She looks at me with disgust when I give her mere kibble and she gets excited as all get out, when I bring out her muzzle.
Anyway, thanks for the conversation.
~T
Fred Barton
August 25, 2018 at 7:52 am
“You know full well that the dogs are not discarded, Fred. They flow into waiting adoption groups all over the US and Canada..just as they are supposed to.”
And why do they need to “flow into waiting adoption groups?” Because they are no longer profitable and the industry has dumped them off. You are making a virtue of necessity because you know those dogs are going one way or another.
T Dog
August 25, 2018 at 3:44 pm
They flow into adoption groups and commercially bred dogs flow into pet stores.
Huge difference though. Most purebred dogs (from over 10 000 individual breeders in the US who breed large numbers of bitches in their kennels) that are sold online or in pet stores are haphazardly bred in poor conditions, with little thought to health etc. But I’m sure you know the rest about that topic.
Are the small business, responsible breeders of say, Golden Retrievers discarding their pups in your opinion? They own them first, have no plan on ever keeping them and make some money off of them.
Just keep in mind that the greyhound industry has successfully decreased the number of Greys born to just over 10 000 per year in the US. 10 000 commercial breeding facilities vs 10 000 individual dogs.
The adoption groups are the middle men for those folks that desire a purebred NGA hound. No, we don’t get a puppy like most purebred enthusiastists do, which says even more about the NGA Greyhounds. People don’t care if they’re 2 or 5 yrs old, there is still demand for them.
The truly discarded dogs end up in shelters because of their most recent owners and
25% of shelter dogs are purebred dogs….just not NGA Greyhounds.
Fred Barton
August 24, 2018 at 3:47 pm
Well first of all, we don’t accuse the entire industry of coking their dogs. Making unfounded sweeping generalizations is your job, not ours. What we do accuse the industry of is the heartless commodification and exploitation of innocent greyhounds for profit and the cruel discarding of those dogs when they can no longer make money.
Andy
August 24, 2018 at 5:29 pm
Ah Freddie, it is Judge Gievers, not Geisler, seems you need to repeat 2nd grade
Fred Barton
August 25, 2018 at 7:13 am
Sorry. That’s my fault. Should have looked it up instead of going from memory.
Greyhound Adopter
August 24, 2018 at 9:12 pm
I’m not an expert on some of the things being discussed here, I’m just a greyhound adopter since 2004. But I hope that won’t keep you from answering my question(s)
I wonder why you say, “cruel discarding of those dogs when they can no longer make money”? Do you agree that racing Greyhounds have a high adoption rate? And many of them go into service and therapy dog programs?
Fred Barton
August 25, 2018 at 7:57 am
Ask yourself why they need to be adopted in the first place. Because they are no longer making money for their owners and the industry has abandoned them. Patting themselves on the back for backing adoption is the industry making a virtue of necessity. The dogs would be gone one way or another, but as the public learned what used to happen to them, the industry was forced to support adoption.
B
August 26, 2018 at 4:43 pm
Isn’t Grey2K also making money from the same thing? If there were no racing greyhounds, Grey2K wouldn’t make any money. Correct?
What will happen if racing is banned? What will happen to Grey2K?
What is Grey2K’s plan to help with placing the thousands of suddenly retired greyhounds if racing is banned in Florida?
Craig Laginess
August 26, 2018 at 5:36 pm
Only a handful of liars are making money in Grey2k, they rely on the gullible people who buy into their lies for donations. We all know that less than one percent of their donations will actually go towards greyhound adoption if 13 passes, which it won’t even make it to the ballot in November. They are a bunch of COWARDS AND CHICKENS who won’t even agree to a public debate, because they know their lies will be exposed to the world and they will lose donations. $$$ over integrity.
Fred Barton
August 26, 2018 at 9:20 pm
If there were no racing there would be no Grey2K and that would make me as happy as you would be if we just went away.
Fred Barton
August 24, 2018 at 9:22 am
“…why not explain…”
Well, basically because it has nothing to do with drugging greyhounds and is simply response 101 from the industry: Change the subject. Deflect, dissemble, obfuscate. You folks should get that printed on a T-shirt.
George Bova
August 24, 2018 at 10:02 am
You can’t finesse your way pass the Truth that 80+ Greyhound adoption groups know these animals better than anyone — and they think YOU and Grey2k are the ones twisting facts for reasons that have nothing to do with “protecting dogs” and everything to do with squeezing more donation dollars at your website. #OutrightTrickeration is what the judge called it. Turning animal lovers into your dupes is just plain sad, Fred.
Fred Barton
August 24, 2018 at 11:34 am
Are you talking about the 80+ groups that have been coerced by the industry into becoming pro racing or at least neutral under threat of not being able to get any dogs? I wouldn’t count on the strength of their support.
Craig Laginess
August 24, 2018 at 11:53 am
Fred,
You have such a way with manipulating and twisting words. The groups openly pledged support no on 13 without being coerced. Now the organization that you are so proud to be a board member of puts up supporters without asking their permission and when the supporters want to be removed from your literature it falls upon deaf ears. So who is being coerced and who isn’t? Your boy Carey still has yet to answer to any debate challenges, but we all know that his lies will be exposed to the entire world. Being a board member of Grey2k, HSUS and/or PETA is nothing to be proud of, it’s like being a board member of Scientology.
Fred Barton
August 24, 2018 at 12:39 pm
” The groups openly pledged support no on 13 without being coerced. ”
Sure they did. And a flock of pigs just flew over my house. I volunteer with two groups here and Michigan who might tell a different story than the one you’re pedaling. And because of my position of the Board of Grey2K (which I am proud of) I’m familiar with the stories of groups in Minnesota, Indiana and other sates that don’t quite agree with your rosy assessment. Using the greyhounds as hostages to shut people of character up is below contemptible.
Jennifer Ng
August 25, 2018 at 1:06 am
I’m the President for Greyhound Adopters for Racing, the organization that put together the list and graphic of the 80+ adoption groups that oppose the ban on greyhound racing. I can assure you that none of them were coerced by the industry. In fact, the industry had nothing to do with the initiative.
Each of the groups on the list either approached us voluntarily requesting to be added, or were sent a simple message by me or one of our other board members (all fellow adoption group volunteers), asking if they would like to be included. If they said yes, we added them, if they said no or didn’t respond, there was no further contact or “coercion”.
Fred Barton
August 25, 2018 at 7:49 am
I know several adoption groups that would disagree with that description including the ones I’m directly involved with. Besides, John Parker has already admitted that dogs are only going to pro-racing groups. Also, if the welfare of the dogs is of primary importance as you like to say, what difference does it make what the adopters believe if they can provide a loving home for the dogs?
Jennifer Ng
August 25, 2018 at 2:31 pm
Fred, please name even 1 group from the list of 80+ groups against the ban who claims to have been coerced to be included. We will happily take them off and apologize for any miscommunication.
If there are limited dogs available and more than enough groups willing and able to take dogs, why should the industry give any dogs to anti-racing groups that make up lies about greyhound racing to try to get it shut down?
I’d much rather a retired racer go to a home who is going to love and appreciate the dog for who s/he is, rather than a home who thinks the dog is an object of pity that they are ‘saving’.
Craig Laginess
August 25, 2018 at 8:06 am
So Fred you are going back 30 years, gee what a surprise!!! Typical Grey2k logic. Yes more dogs used to be put down than adopted and that percentage dropped over the years, at least the owners changed unlike the horse racing industry, now there is a 95% adoption rate. Why don’t you and your chief liar Carey debate John Parker? Oh the Grey2k lies will be exposed and heaven forbid the donations drop!!! Money over integrity, just like Ohio State Football!!!
Fred Barton
August 25, 2018 at 8:19 am
Like I said, making a virtue of necessity.
Craig Laginess
August 25, 2018 at 8:42 am
But yet you refuse to debate. $$$ over integrity!!!!
Fred Barton
August 25, 2018 at 8:59 am
You forgot to add like Ohio State.
Andy
August 26, 2018 at 9:29 am
Fred is ‘ proud ‘ of his association with a group that stoops to blackmail, has a documented liar as president, is aligned with a know terrorist organization and got caught by the judge at OUTRIGHT TRICKERATION, tells one all they need to know about him
Craig Laginess
August 26, 2018 at 9:36 am
And they theft and doctoring of copyrighted material. It’s all about the $$$ and Freddy has admitted to it on this thread. Money over integrity. The Florida Supreme Court will be throwing 13 off the ballot and Grey2k and the HSUS will feel like a used hooker that got stiffed.
Love Hounds
August 24, 2018 at 12:39 pm
John Parker appears very confident in his knowledge and stance on this matter. I can’t imagine someone who’s hiding the truth would be willing to put himself out there like this…voluntarily. Makes me question things even more! Why wouldn’t you take him up on this?
I, myself have put forth questions to Grey2k and although they may have been on the skeptical side in appearance, I was only trying to learn. Apparently, it’s not an organization that invites a critical mind asking for a rational explanation because I was promptly blocked.
I was baffled! However, everything seems to be coming into focus now.
Lori
August 24, 2018 at 5:31 pm
They just want you to accept everything they say without question and open your wallet. No critical thinking required.
Fred Barton
August 24, 2018 at 3:34 pm
I’m the evidence John. As I said, I I volunteer with two groups here in Michigan who were told flat out they weren’t getting dogs because of their anti-racing stance. Through Grey2K I also know people in other state who have corroborated what happened to me in Michigan.
Mike Jawarski
August 24, 2018 at 6:55 pm
You seem like a confident person, Mr. Barton. Why wouldn’t you take up Mr. Parker’s request for a debate on this issue? Or why wouldn’t you urge Carey to debate him? Are you / Grey2k afraid of something?
Andy
August 24, 2018 at 7:50 pm
Liars always fear the truth, both are cowardly little pathetic excuses for men. Neither has ever played a sport or been in a gym in their life. Fraud is hardly a manly pursuit
Fred Barton
August 25, 2018 at 7:16 am
Because John doesn’t really want a debate. He wants an opportunity to run the party line and cloud the issue. A true debate would have a central issue, such as is greyhound racing humane, and stick to that issue. If you’ve read some of the comments from pro-racing people you’ve probably seen that sticking to the issue is the last thing they want to do.
Mike Jawarski
August 26, 2018 at 9:06 am
I am only interested in Mr. Parker’s comments, and he has stayed on focus with the issue.
Fred Barton
August 25, 2018 at 7:20 am
Because John doesn’t really want a debate. He wants an opportunity to run the party line and cloud the issue. A true debate would have a central question such as is greyhound racing humane, and the participants would stick to that issue. If you’ve read any comments by pro-racing people at all you know that sticking to the issue is the last thing they want to do.
Michael
August 24, 2018 at 5:29 pm
Why do you people (the same handful) continue to discuss the same crap every article on this subject? Its like reading a novel with idiots and ingnorants as the main characters. Neither side is winning the argument but you will both continue to bash each other. Save your breath. Dont you people have something better to do. My mind has been made up for a long time now on which way Im voting so neither aide will influence my vote as I have seen reports, interviewed handlers, discussed in depth with DBPR investigators and have seen the decline in customers. I am voting YES for 13 no matter how much crap slinging goes on here. Leave it up to the people and that will be that. The hatred between the two sides does influence anyone but is a major turn off.
Andy
August 26, 2018 at 1:46 pm
You have no call whatsoever to call anyone ignorant given how ignorant you have proven yourself to be
Michael
August 24, 2018 at 5:31 pm
Why do you people (the same handful) continue to discuss the same crap every article on this subject? Its like reading a novel with idiots and ingnorants as the main characters. Neither side is winning the argument but you will both continue to bash each other. Save your breath. Dont you people have something better to do. My mind has been made up for a long time now on which way Im voting so neither aide will influence my vote as I have seen reports, interviewed handlers, discussed in depth with DBPR investigators and have seen the decline in customers. I am voting YES for 13 no matter how much crap slinging goes on here. Leave it up to the people and that will be that. The hatred between the two sides doesnt influence anyone but is a major turn off.
Craig Laginess
August 25, 2018 at 8:11 am
Michael,
Once the Florida Supreme court confirms the decision from the lower court you won’t be able to vote on 13. Personally I encourage a NO vote on all amendments because your CRC made all of the amendments baffling and confusing and influenced by special interests and lobbyists. If I were a citizen of Florida all of the amendments would get a NO vote.
Fred Barton
August 25, 2018 at 7:11 am
” I’m asking you for any evidence that any of the 81 Greyhound adoption groups supporting Greyhound racing were coerced into taking that public position. ”
And I gave it to you from my direct experience and the experience of other who have spoken with me.
As for a debate, what would be the question to be resolved? How about this: It the heartless commodification and exploitation of innocent greyhounds for profit an activity that should be tolerated in 21st century society? I’ll take the negative.
Mike Jawarski
August 26, 2018 at 9:08 am
That’s not “evidence”. It’s hearsay. What is the name of the person that told you your group will not receive retired greyhound because of your anti-racing stance? The name. Just one name. You say you have evidence. Let’s hear it.
Fred Barton
August 26, 2018 at 9:51 am
As I told John, I am the evidence. I volunteer with two groups here in Michigan and I have direct and personal experience with blacklisting groups that are anti-racing.
Craig Laginess
August 25, 2018 at 7:30 am
Fred,
By turning down a debate makes you just as much of a COWARD and CHICKEN as your head liar Carey. Grey2k is like Ohio State Football, afraid to lose the donation $$$.
Fred Barton
August 26, 2018 at 7:18 am
You contradict yourself. First you say tell you what groups are on the blacklist then you say why should we give dogs to anti-racing groups. Given my experience I tend to believe the latter.
Andy
August 26, 2018 at 7:38 am
So debate the man, it will never happen though because the lot of you are fraudulent cowards.
Fred Barton
August 26, 2018 at 12:02 pm
I can certainly understand how a logical fallacy would make “perfect sense” to you. For the rest of us, however, it invalidates the argument in which it is used. BTW, do you still beat your wife is called begging the question, another logical fallacy.
Andy
August 26, 2018 at 12:16 pm
Coward, simple as that
Fred Barton
August 26, 2018 at 12:49 pm
I think, from now on whenever I challenge you folks and you respond by changing the subject (like you just did) I’m going to call that a victory for the greyhounds. Every time you are confronted with the cruelty of your so called sport, and refuse to face the issue head on, we move one step closer towards freedom for all the dogs trapped in racing gulags across the state.
Andy
August 26, 2018 at 1:07 pm
All lies, every time we mention the fraud that runs rampant in your scam group you say nothing. One step closer huh, judge Gievers put the smackdown on your fraud, watch the SC agree, after that you will NEVER see 60 percent
Leslie c
August 26, 2018 at 1:30 pm
Erik,
A debate typically is when two sides put forth opposing arguments.
Your one word affirmative “yes opinions” wouldn’t constitute a debate. So, you are right, debating you would be a waste of time.
Fred Barton
August 26, 2018 at 3:06 pm
Your definition of ad hominem is mostly correct, but your application is not. You are trying to parse out a semantic difference between the advocacy and the advocate and it doesn’t work that way. You’re simply employing another obfuscating tactic to get the discussion away from the inherent cruelty of greyhound racing.
Andy
August 26, 2018 at 4:11 pm
The dishonesty practiced by you and your criminal cohorts even Judge Gievers saw. You can deny all you want, but the fact is you lie, commit fraud, and attempted to dupe Florida voters. You refuse to debate simply because your lies will be exposed. You are a fraudster, Freedie, just like Carey, lying Dorchak, and the rest of your criminal cohorts.
Craig Laginess
August 26, 2018 at 9:25 pm
Football players put their lives on the line to make their owners or colleges money. Racecar drivers also put their lives on the line to make their owners money. Truck drivers do too Fred. Either accept a public debate or quit spreading the Grey2k lies.
Eric Jackson
August 26, 2018 at 10:14 pm
When is the last time a football player was euthanized because he suffered a career-ending injury? Same with racecar drivers. I don’t know how you’re trying to draw a parallel between racing greyhounds and truck drivers – that’s just bizarre.
You know what all three of your examples have in common? They’re all humans. They all exhibit free will in whether they play, race, or drive. Greyhounds don’t have that ability.
Craig Laginess
August 27, 2018 at 5:52 am
You are right there hasn’t been a football player euthanized, instead they suffer life altering injuries such as paralysis, CTE, etc. Racecar drivers have died racing most notably Dale Earnhardt. My analogy with truck drivers putting their lives at risk to do a job is an analogy because greyhounds are doing a job. Get your head out of your rear and think outside the box. You and the other anti’s are looking like a southbound end of a northbound horse.
Fred Barton
August 27, 2018 at 7:45 am
Football players aren’t born on farms and raise with the sole purpose of playing football. Race car drivers are caged in the garage between races. They can also walk away at any time. This is what’s called a false equivalency.
Andy
August 27, 2018 at 9:27 am
And you and your cohorts are what is called fraudsters, the most recent evidence of this, is, of course, OUTRIGHT TRICKERATION
Fred Barton
August 27, 2018 at 11:38 am
OK Andy we get it. You picked up on the judge’s use of the term trickeration. You don’t have to put it in every post you write, we all know you learned a new word.
Andy
August 27, 2018 at 11:52 am
And we all know it describes your fraud group perfectly, the way you, and have always operated, deception, fraud, lies, yep OUTRIGHT TRICKERATION
Fred Barton
August 27, 2018 at 7:54 am
” It’s laughable, but at the same time it speaks volumes that you’ll neither produce evidence of even one adoption group or one adopter or one adoption volunteer being so coerced…”
I told you before John, I’m the evidence. I like how you folks conveniently forget that when you want to spread repeat the same scripted, dated empty rhetoric.
Andy
August 27, 2018 at 9:22 am
” I’m the evidence” Fred says, a representative of a group with a history of fraud and lies getting longer by the day, as evidenced by OUTRIGHT TRICKERATION, not to mention being aligned with a known terrorist group ALF, not to mention being in league with a group charged with racketeering and paying a witness to LIE. Birds of a feather certainly flock together.
Fred Barton
August 27, 2018 at 11:36 am
I was wondering when you’d get around to calling me a liar. You always demand evidence and then when you get it find a way to deflect, diminish or dismiss it. denying evidence in all caps doesn’t change the truth.
Andy
August 27, 2018 at 11:54 am
Of course you are a liar, the lot of you are, that’s why the judge called it right. HSUS certainly did pay a witness to lie, all of you lie, distort facts, scam people. It is sad
f
August 27, 2018 at 2:15 pm
Well, thanks for confirming that there is evidence at least. As for your questions, you’ll have to ask the NGA. The trainers told us that’s where the pressure was coming from.
Andy
August 27, 2018 at 4:49 pm
Sure they did, all this is is more OUTRIGHT TRICKERATION
Fred Barton
August 27, 2018 at 2:16 pm
Thanks for helping me make my point.
Craig Laginess
August 27, 2018 at 2:43 pm
Fred, all you do is repeat the Grey2k lies and never answer questions asked of you by the pro-racers. They are simple fair questions. Obviously Grey2k and the other anti’s are the ones dodging the questions, changing the subject and looking like a southbound end of a northbound horse. The anti’s should put up or shut up and answer the challenge to a public debate. I am going to throw in another question, why won’t Grey2k or any other anti-racing group allow counter points to their Facebook posts? It seems to me once someone posts something that they don’t agree with that post gets deleted and the person blocked from commenting or posting? Sounds kind of like brainwashing to me.
Fred Barton
August 27, 2018 at 3:28 pm
“…why won’t Grey2k or any other anti-racing group allow counter points to their Facebook posts?”
Probably for the same reason I get kicked off all the PR sites.
Andy
August 27, 2018 at 4:47 pm
The judge’s decision and the fact that you refuse to debate the man is all one needs to know to determine who the liars are, of course there is so much more, such as grey2k ADMITTING to fraudulent advertising in Mass, that your partners were charged with racketeering for paying a witness to LIE, Dorchak is a DOCUMENTED LIAR. etc etc,
Andy
August 27, 2018 at 5:33 pm
You can’t make this stuff up. Here we have an organization who 1. Has a confirmed and documented liar as president 2. Has for a partner an organization who was charged with racketeering and fined 15 million dollars for paying a witness to lie 3. Had their sham amendment thrown out in Mass in 2000 for lies 4. Had the same thing happen in Florida. And they accuse the other side pf deceit. Unreal, but I guess in the world of fraudsters it makes perfect sense.
Mike Jawarski
August 27, 2018 at 11:08 pm
No, you don’t. If you had a name (you don’t) you would have no problem letting people know who it is / was. Again, provide a name.
Fred Barton
August 28, 2018 at 9:17 am
My dog is on a leash under my control in a safe environment, not running flat out next to an electrical cable with seven other dogs. That’s a typical industry false equivalency.
Mike Jawarski
August 28, 2018 at 12:01 pm
And yet more dogs “under leash control in a safe environment” are injured or killed than greyhounds. Sounds like being a racing greyhound is safer than being your pet.
Fred Barton
August 28, 2018 at 1:25 pm
That can’t be true because greyhounds are a subset of all dogs, so logically whatever happened to them would happen less frequently than it happened to all dogs. Sleeping in algebra class that day huh?
Fred Barton
August 28, 2018 at 1:16 pm
Like I said, I’m giving you the easy way out on this. And you took it. Doeswn’t change the truth. I would imagine there are many other adoption volunteers with similar stories.
Andy
August 28, 2018 at 1:59 pm
The easy way out for you is agreeing to a debate, which you will never do. That alone proves you’re a fraud
Fred Barton
August 28, 2018 at 1:18 pm
You really need to Google false equivalency. You’re full of them.
Fred Barton
August 28, 2018 at 1:19 pm
You really need to Google false equivalency. You’re full of them.
Andy
August 28, 2018 at 1:57 pm
Google fraud, that’s what you and your ilk are full of, just like all the irrefutable evidence proves, ‘ crafted to mislead,’ Sure hasn’t been anyone on our side charged with racketeering
Carey's Dad
August 28, 2018 at 2:19 pm
Looks like my son Carey has been tied up by Christine and Sonia crying after the HSUS lost their charity status. I went to visit him and caught all of them watching a WNBA game in women’s underwear. I told him to man up and debate the pro-racing side, he whined and cried fearing how hurtful they will be to him. He’s also afraid of his golden parachute disappearing and his lies will be exposed. I have tried to disown the liar, but he keeps stalking me. Little does the lying sack of s–t know is that he’s only getting one dollar from my estate.
Fred Barton
August 28, 2018 at 9:33 pm
Not really sure why you have to hide behind a pseudonym to call us names. Andy isn’t afraid to use his real name. Neither is Craig, or John, or Mike,or Steve, or just about anyone except you. Kind of makes your attacks a little pathetic next to theirs.
Craig Laginess
August 28, 2018 at 9:44 pm
My calling the anti-racing people a bunch of cowards because you refuse to debate is a lot less pathetic than your refusal to debate and your repeated lies. Should we just throw softball questions at the debate?
Is the pope Catholic?
Does a bear crap in the woods?
Why did Grey2k cross the road?
What color is the sun?
Let’s use these softball questions for a debate.
Eric Jackson
August 28, 2018 at 9:59 pm
Are you claiming ownership of the “Carey’s Dad” tag, Craig? That’s a pretty pathetic attempt at humor. Or are people supposed to believe that nonsense?
Craig Laginess
August 28, 2018 at 7:27 pm
Tomorrow the Florida Supreme Court will see through the lies and throw 13 off the ballot. Grey2k will still refuse an invitation to a public debate because they are nothing but a bunch of COWARDS and CHICKENS who don’t want their lies exposed. Finally the fine citizens of Florida will continue to reap the benefits of greyhound racing.
Fred Barton
August 28, 2018 at 9:23 pm
Andy, when the proposal got to court it was already written. We supported the amendment as presented. I think you’ve got your timelines confused.
Andy
August 29, 2018 at 5:01 am
Sure Fred, already written with direction from grey2k every step of the way. Humane treatment of animals being a fundamental value or some such garbage was put in it at the direction of Mr Stiel and or you crooked lawyers like Glover because it polled better. Again, nice try, but no one believes you had nothing to do with ” crafted to mislead”, after all that’s grey2k’s stock in trade
Fred Barton
August 29, 2018 at 7:30 am
I didn’t say we had nothing to do with it. We fought for it as hard as we could and continue to do so. I said we didn’t write it, and if you think we did, you’re giving us much more credit than we deserve, but thanks anyway.
Andy
August 29, 2018 at 3:22 pm
Sure Fred, ” crafted to mislead”, that is your way, always has been. Just as you do with photos and videos you steal, blackmailers are bereft of integrity. Not to mention your president being a confirmed and documented liar.
Craig Laginess
August 29, 2018 at 5:43 am
Eric. I am not claiming “Carey’s Dad” I am responding to my name being brought up as pathetic because I called the anti-racing people cowards.
Fred Barton
August 29, 2018 at 7:28 am
Yes it is a false equivalence John, because groups of eight greyhounds are purposely, knowingly put in dangerous situations on a regular basis and made to move in a predetermined way, whereas a dog in a yard can move to protect itself, stop when it wants and even lie in the grass and not move at all. Your call for statistics is trying to make a quantitative argument out of a qualitative one.
Craig Laginess
August 29, 2018 at 7:30 pm
Fred, of course they maintain the tracks, it’s a cost of doing business. They even solicit help from the horse racing industry to help if needed. I know this as a fact from my days at Raceway Park in Toledo when I was the controller there. Yes, I revealed my source something that you aren’t willing to do.
Fred Barton
August 29, 2018 at 9:30 pm
I didn’t say they weren’t maintained. I said that they may not always be maintained, particularly as the money dries up. I remember a case a few years ago when trainers refused to race at a track because they thought it was unsafe.
Fred Barton
August 30, 2018 at 3:54 pm
There you go again, trying yo make a quantitative argument out of a qualitative one. Because greyhounds are injured in coursing and racing, those two activities are equivalent. Nope. There’s a qualitative difference between a shoulder injury and a broken hock, or neck, or electrocution. And don’t even get me started on the fact that greyhounds are bred for the sole purpose of putting their lives at risk so you can make money. Where are the coursing breeding farms? Do coursing dogs need adoption groups to take them off their owners hands when they no longer make money?
As I said before, most herding dogs don’t herd today, poodles don’t hunt and terriers don’t ferret out rats, yet these breeds have made the transition to companion animal successfully, and the breeds are healthy and thriving. There’s no reason to think a dog with the personality of a greyhound can’t do the same. In fact, if I owned a breeding farm, I’d be thinking about changing my marketing plan already.
Amateur sports is not a focus for us right now. We’re zeroed in on ending the institutionalized cruelty that is for profit greyhound racing and that’s where all our attention is, much as you would like us to be distracted I am sure.
Fred Barton
August 30, 2018 at 5:51 pm
Well, those questions I asked you were rhetorical, so you’re off the hook there. As for your questions, I believe I already answered them, but I’ll try again.
1. Greyhounds can have any, or almost any (I don’t think they’d make good guard dogs) of the jobs other breeds took on when their primary jobs became obsolete. This is more than just athletes, but may include that as well.
2. Most of the greyhounds in the US are descended from Irish greyhounds, and there is some evidence that greyhounds themselves are descended from a Saluki type dog, so I see no danger to their genetic diversity. In fact I would think their genetic diversity would increase as they are no longer bred just for speed and that will take the pressure off of breeders to focus traits. The genetic demands of a person seeking a greyhound as a pet are a lot broader than those of a trainer looking for a winner.
3. I told you before, amateur racing is not on our radar. Perhaps when racing has ended worldwide we will take another look at it, but that’s too far away to even speculate about now. And most likely you and I won’t be around to argue about it if it ever happens.
I do have one real question for you though, Do you think racing is humane? Exploitive? An anachronism in modern society? Economically viable? Pick any one, or several if you wish.
Andy
August 31, 2018 at 8:59 am
If greyhound racing ends surely your criminal cohorts stiel and lying dorchak will come up with some other scam, you really don’t think either would ever get a real job when they do do well scamming people.
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